4 ms·

(3) is a very negative way of looking at things. Do you think Bill Gates did it on his own? You don't have to be famous in order to play a small part of somethi

by jart 5y ago

(3) is a very negative way of looking at things. Do you think Bill Gates did it on his own? You don't have to be famous in order to play a small part of something impactful that's larger than yourself and will be respected for generations.

sillysaurusx 5y ago
> You don't have to be famous in order to play a small part of something impactful that's larger than yourself and will be respected for generations. Once someone leaves a company, their work generally fades into oblivion. Almost immediately, too. Are you around 25? I used to feel as you do. But at 34, I'm with OP.
- jart 5y ago
  I'm older than you. The code I write and the production systems I've brought online tend to stick around. It's because I pour my heart and soul into making them as beautiful and poetic as possible. Because I'm not just thinking about my paycheck. I'm thinking about the next guy who's going to be maintaining it, and how good his life is going to be, after I've moved on to a different project, and then the next guy. I think if we all approached our work with the same level of tender loving care that we normally reserve only for our children, then the world would be a more pleasant place.
  - sillysaurusx 5y ago
    It sounds like you haven't had the experience of being fired without notice, with one month of rent in savings. Companies literally don't care whether you die. Why would you pour your heart and soul into something so soulless? When I felt as you did, it ended up causing interpersonal conflicts when my vision of "good" didn't match my coworkers'. If you pour your heart and soul into something, and then everyone disagrees that it's good, then empirically you were a net negative for the team. Strike two for soulpouring. I understand you might want to remain anonymous, but it's also telling that you didn't link to any examples of the work that you're proud of. My point is, try not to judge others for not feeling as you do. Empathy is a difficult art, but it's worthwhile. It wasn't till I was diagnosed with narcolepsy that most of my work history made sense in hindsight -- zero companies were tolerant to missed meetings, with the thankful exception of my current role. (I wrote about my experiences here: https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1392213804684038150 https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1392213804684038150) And no matter how much you care about your work, I bet you don't pour your heart and soul into meetings. So it always felt like the world cared about things I didn't, which in turn made me stop caring beyond professionalism. But professionalism has merit. Once I detached my ego, I was able to take orders well, and to execute someone else's vision well. "Tool" is another name for that sort of person. And although I don't enjoy being a tool, I'm well-compensated for it, and the counterparty and I both walk away happy.
    - jart 5y ago
      Companies normally don't fire a crackerjack but that happened to me back in the 2000's during one of the more vulnerable parts of my life. The vice president who recruited me took a higher paying gig at a competitor. Then my manager went on a weeklong vacation. I showed up to work one day and found that my computer couldn't access the network. I asked the IT guy what happened and with a bead of sweat rolling down his forehead he was like, uhh talk to the new VP. Turns out first day on the job, he decided to can me. When my manager came back from vacation and learned what they'd done, he immediately tendered his resignation. Really unfortunate. But I checked and they're still using my code. But it doesn't matter, because one goofball VP doesn't shake my faith in myself and the meaningfulness of the work that myself and my colleagues are doing. You might have lost faith but that doesn't mean other people should too. The GP wasn't just musing about his own life. He very explicitly said you and came across as saying your life doesn't matter if work is the thing that matters to you, because your work will never matter unless you're Gates. I don't accept that and I won't empathize with that conclusion. Because it's demoralizing and insulting to everyone who's working hard. If his truth was accepted as everyone's truth, then could you imagine how unpleasant the world would be? The simple fact is that your family matters and your work matters too. Regardless of whatever misfortune or doom and gloom you may have encountered on your journey.
      - sillysaurusx 5y ago
        “Companies don’t fire a crackerjack” implies that you’ve always been seen as an all-star team member. Consider an alternate universe where you were never allowed to feel like an all-star, because you were never able to show up for meetings on time, and people got progressively madder at you regardless of how much soul or effort you put in. We’re probably two sides of the same coin. You got lucky at all your jobs, and I got unlucky. But it certainly made me think twice about thinking badly of people who get fired, regardless of official reasons. (Your manager seemed to actually care about you on a personal level? That ~never happens.)
        jart 5y ago
        What you call luck, I'd call magic. The important thing to understand about magic tricks is they're really not all that magical once you learn how to perform them. People are also willing to overlook a great deal when they believe you're a luckbringer. My manager for instance cared about me on a personal level because I was contributing to his success. When the VP took me away, it weakened him.
  - mancerayder 5y ago
    I've been building systems for years in numerous places. Have you never experienced a political situation where a decision is made in these systems you describe as beautiful and poetic, that is not your own and yet due to organisational structures you must obey? I am curious given your attachment how you handle these. They're standard political issues in organizations larger than a few people.
    - jart 5y ago
      My attachment? That aside, I think what you're asking is really simple. Relationships and empires are built on compromise. When you work a job you should agree with the stated objectives of your bosses. If you've got those bases covered, and it's a healthy environment too, then nothing should surprise you.
  - TigeriusKirk 5y ago
    Reading this made me realize I've written code that's no only older than a lot of people reading this, it's still being sold to new customers.
    - jart 5y ago
      That's really impressive. What's the code? Something like that sounds like it could be a really inspirational success story.
      - TigeriusKirk 5y ago
        It's not that inspirational in reality. I worked for a company that produced software for banks converting their systems over to Windows in the 90s. The resulting packages are still being sold to new financial institutions by the company that bought the company that bought the company that bought the company I worked for at the time. Heh. One of my old coworkers there still makes some decent money as a consultant supporting it. I also worked on some ATM software at the same company, but it was pre-windows and I doubt it's running many places, much less being sold still.
        jart 5y ago
        I think that's inspirational. What was it, written in something like COBOL? I've had my codebases demolished by things like Express changing its API enough times that you might say I've got a little COBOL envy. Major respect to anything that's stood the test of time and continues to serve a useful purpose after all these years.
gitfan86 5y ago
The point isn't that you will never be part of something great. The point is to keep your stress level low in regards to work.
romanovcode 5y ago
> play a small part of something impactful that's larger than yourself and will be respected for generations. So do you know anyone from MS who played part except Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer? I would attribute the guy who invented C# and TypeScript a significant impact, however I don't even know his name without googleing it.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  And hackerfromthefu isn't the only one who knew that by heart; I was going to supply you with the name when I noticed that someone already had. Not mr Hejlsberg's fault that you don't know his name, is it?
  - hackerfromthefu 5y ago
    Yes I'm a huge fan! I've followed his career for 2 decades using his tooling because he has the sense of style and expertise to create development tooling that was generations ahead of the competition, the best I've ever found from trying so many languages. He's also a really personable and humble genius based on the relatively few videos and interviews available. In my opinion he's the Michael Jordan of software, though he's more humble!
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      I've known of him for a bit longer, but soured on him a bit when he let himself be bought by the Evil Empire. Also, his uglier second take eclipsing the original annoyed me. But, mellowing with age, I'm slowly getting over that. :-) (Also, Khan should just fucking have paid him better.)
- jart 5y ago
  Well Tim Paterson for starters. He wrote their wildest hacks. Like this program that translated old CP/M binaries into i8086 code dynamically at runtime during the loading process, so that DOS could seamlessly transition people away from the Digital Equipment Corporation platform. Plus he wrote commands like `DEBUG` which like GDB normally require special kind of giftedness in order to create. What would Microsoft have been, if it weren't for unsung heroes like him?
josefrichter 5y ago
I think the point is that you shouldn't try so hard to "change the world". We are far too often told that you can change the world, you can be anything you want to be, keep looking and don't settle, and it brings a lot of misery to a lot of people who feel they are losers just because they're not changing the world.. We the HN readers are generally some of the luckiest people in the world because we were born smart enough to be able to work in a profession that is generally very well paid. If OP has $500k he is in fact probably among top 1% of the richest people on this planet.. If you're less lucky and work as a truck driver somewhere in poor country, then life is extremely hard... I would agree with you on one thing: no matter what your conditions are, you can e.g. go out and start picking up trash and cleaning up your neighborhood. I am sure it is meaningful, someone will appreciate it sooner or later, someone might even join and help. And if not, at least you have cleaner neighborhood.

by jart 5y ago

sillysaurusx 5y ago

> You don't have to be famous in order to play a small part of something impactful that's larger than yourself and will be respected for generations. Once someone leaves a company, their work generally fades into oblivion. Almost immediately, too. Are you around 25? I used to feel as you do. But at 34, I'm with OP.

jart 5y ago
I'm older than you. The code I write and the production systems I've brought online tend to stick around. It's because I pour my heart and soul into making them as beautiful and poetic as possible. Because I'm not just thinking about my paycheck. I'm thinking about the next guy who's going to be maintaining it, and how good his life is going to be, after I've moved on to a different project, and then the next guy. I think if we all approached our work with the same level of tender loving care that we normally reserve only for our children, then the world would be a more pleasant place.
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  It sounds like you haven't had the experience of being fired without notice, with one month of rent in savings. Companies literally don't care whether you die. Why would you pour your heart and soul into something so soulless? When I felt as you did, it ended up causing interpersonal conflicts when my vision of "good" didn't match my coworkers'. If you pour your heart and soul into something, and then everyone disagrees that it's good, then empirically you were a net negative for the team. Strike two for soulpouring. I understand you might want to remain anonymous, but it's also telling that you didn't link to any examples of the work that you're proud of. My point is, try not to judge others for not feeling as you do. Empathy is a difficult art, but it's worthwhile. It wasn't till I was diagnosed with narcolepsy that most of my work history made sense in hindsight -- zero companies were tolerant to missed meetings, with the thankful exception of my current role. (I wrote about my experiences here: https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1392213804684038150 https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1392213804684038150) And no matter how much you care about your work, I bet you don't pour your heart and soul into meetings. So it always felt like the world cared about things I didn't, which in turn made me stop caring beyond professionalism. But professionalism has merit. Once I detached my ego, I was able to take orders well, and to execute someone else's vision well. "Tool" is another name for that sort of person. And although I don't enjoy being a tool, I'm well-compensated for it, and the counterparty and I both walk away happy.
  - jart 5y ago
    Companies normally don't fire a crackerjack but that happened to me back in the 2000's during one of the more vulnerable parts of my life. The vice president who recruited me took a higher paying gig at a competitor. Then my manager went on a weeklong vacation. I showed up to work one day and found that my computer couldn't access the network. I asked the IT guy what happened and with a bead of sweat rolling down his forehead he was like, uhh talk to the new VP. Turns out first day on the job, he decided to can me. When my manager came back from vacation and learned what they'd done, he immediately tendered his resignation. Really unfortunate. But I checked and they're still using my code. But it doesn't matter, because one goofball VP doesn't shake my faith in myself and the meaningfulness of the work that myself and my colleagues are doing. You might have lost faith but that doesn't mean other people should too. The GP wasn't just musing about his own life. He very explicitly said you and came across as saying your life doesn't matter if work is the thing that matters to you, because your work will never matter unless you're Gates. I don't accept that and I won't empathize with that conclusion. Because it's demoralizing and insulting to everyone who's working hard. If his truth was accepted as everyone's truth, then could you imagine how unpleasant the world would be? The simple fact is that your family matters and your work matters too. Regardless of whatever misfortune or doom and gloom you may have encountered on your journey.
    - sillysaurusx 5y ago
      “Companies don’t fire a crackerjack” implies that you’ve always been seen as an all-star team member. Consider an alternate universe where you were never allowed to feel like an all-star, because you were never able to show up for meetings on time, and people got progressively madder at you regardless of how much soul or effort you put in. We’re probably two sides of the same coin. You got lucky at all your jobs, and I got unlucky. But it certainly made me think twice about thinking badly of people who get fired, regardless of official reasons. (Your manager seemed to actually care about you on a personal level? That ~never happens.)
      - jart 5y ago
        What you call luck, I'd call magic. The important thing to understand about magic tricks is they're really not all that magical once you learn how to perform them. People are also willing to overlook a great deal when they believe you're a luckbringer. My manager for instance cared about me on a personal level because I was contributing to his success. When the VP took me away, it weakened him.
- mancerayder 5y ago
  I've been building systems for years in numerous places. Have you never experienced a political situation where a decision is made in these systems you describe as beautiful and poetic, that is not your own and yet due to organisational structures you must obey? I am curious given your attachment how you handle these. They're standard political issues in organizations larger than a few people.
  - jart 5y ago
    My attachment? That aside, I think what you're asking is really simple. Relationships and empires are built on compromise. When you work a job you should agree with the stated objectives of your bosses. If you've got those bases covered, and it's a healthy environment too, then nothing should surprise you.
- TigeriusKirk 5y ago
  Reading this made me realize I've written code that's no only older than a lot of people reading this, it's still being sold to new customers.
  - jart 5y ago
    That's really impressive. What's the code? Something like that sounds like it could be a really inspirational success story.
    - TigeriusKirk 5y ago
      It's not that inspirational in reality. I worked for a company that produced software for banks converting their systems over to Windows in the 90s. The resulting packages are still being sold to new financial institutions by the company that bought the company that bought the company that bought the company I worked for at the time. Heh. One of my old coworkers there still makes some decent money as a consultant supporting it. I also worked on some ATM software at the same company, but it was pre-windows and I doubt it's running many places, much less being sold still.
      - jart 5y ago
        I think that's inspirational. What was it, written in something like COBOL? I've had my codebases demolished by things like Express changing its API enough times that you might say I've got a little COBOL envy. Major respect to anything that's stood the test of time and continues to serve a useful purpose after all these years.

gitfan86 5y ago

The point isn't that you will never be part of something great. The point is to keep your stress level low in regards to work.

romanovcode 5y ago

> play a small part of something impactful that's larger than yourself and will be respected for generations. So do you know anyone from MS who played part except Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer? I would attribute the guy who invented C# and TypeScript a significant impact, however I don't even know his name without googleing it.

CRConrad 5y ago
And hackerfromthefu isn't the only one who knew that by heart; I was going to supply you with the name when I noticed that someone already had. Not mr Hejlsberg's fault that you don't know his name, is it?
- hackerfromthefu 5y ago
  Yes I'm a huge fan! I've followed his career for 2 decades using his tooling because he has the sense of style and expertise to create development tooling that was generations ahead of the competition, the best I've ever found from trying so many languages. He's also a really personable and humble genius based on the relatively few videos and interviews available. In my opinion he's the Michael Jordan of software, though he's more humble!
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    I've known of him for a bit longer, but soured on him a bit when he let himself be bought by the Evil Empire. Also, his uglier second take eclipsing the original annoyed me. But, mellowing with age, I'm slowly getting over that. :-) (Also, Khan should just fucking have paid him better.)
jart 5y ago
Well Tim Paterson for starters. He wrote their wildest hacks. Like this program that translated old CP/M binaries into i8086 code dynamically at runtime during the loading process, so that DOS could seamlessly transition people away from the Digital Equipment Corporation platform. Plus he wrote commands like `DEBUG` which like GDB normally require special kind of giftedness in order to create. What would Microsoft have been, if it weren't for unsung heroes like him?

josefrichter 5y ago

I think the point is that you shouldn't try so hard to "change the world". We are far too often told that you can change the world, you can be anything you want to be, keep looking and don't settle, and it brings a lot of misery to a lot of people who feel they are losers just because they're not changing the world.. We the HN readers are generally some of the luckiest people in the world because we were born smart enough to be able to work in a profession that is generally very well paid. If OP has $500k he is in fact probably among top 1% of the richest people on this planet.. If you're less lucky and work as a truck driver somewhere in poor country, then life is extremely hard... I would agree with you on one thing: no matter what your conditions are, you can e.g. go out and start picking up trash and cleaning up your neighborhood. I am sure it is meaningful, someone will appreciate it sooner or later, someone might even join and help. And if not, at least you have cleaner neighborhood.