4 ms·

I’m surprised you’re happy about the pass. the only thing the pass does is insure the minority of people who didn’t want the vaccine are forced to be vaccinated

by bsaul 5y ago

I’m surprised you’re happy about the pass. the only thing the pass does is insure the minority of people who didn’t want the vaccine are forced to be vaccinated. I suppose you didn’t have to be forced, so why do you care ?

microtonal 5y ago
so why do you care ? Because the people who didn't want to be vaccinated take up all the hospital and intensive care beds, leading to many postponed surgeries. E.g. in The Netherlands in October, unvaccinated people took 70% of the intensive care beds allocated to COVID patients, while only being ~16% of the 18+ population. [1] [1] https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/ongevaccineerde-COVID-19-patiënten-in-het-ziekenhuis-bijna-20jaar-jonger-dan-gevaccineerde https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/ongevaccineerde-COVID-19-patiënte...
- bsaul 5y ago
  We had this statistic in france too, but it happens that ICU saturation occures every winter, for flu and such. it’s been on the headlines for almost a decade every year. Mostly due to population getting older, and hospitals poorer. I wonder if it isn’t the same everywhere.
- StanislavPetrov 5y ago
  Here in New York Andrew Cuomo spent the last decade closing hospitals and reducing hospital capacity at the behest of HMOs, for-profit hospitals, health insurance companies and associated banks and Wall Street investors. It is expensive to maintain hospitals and have enough spare hospital capacity in case of a crisis, and officials at the state and federal level chose profits over capacity. For the last 2 years, these same officials have telling us that we have no choice but to give up our freedoms, civil liberties and bodily autonomy because there aren't enough hospital beds. This was a manufactured crisis (even beyond the likely manufacturing of the virus in a CDC-funded Wuhan lab). 1975: U.S. population: 219 million Hospital beds: 1,465,828 Ratio: 1 bed per 149 people 2019: U.S. population: 334 million Hospital beds: 919,559 https://www.statista.com/statistics/185860/number-of-all-hospital-beds-in-the-us-since-2001/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/185860/number-of-all-hos...
- dijonman2 5y ago
  I’m not getting the vaccine and had covid twice. I have antibodies, which should be recognized in lieu of vaccine. I took no space in a hospital. It’s a bit hyperbolic at this point, don’t you think?
  - microtonal 5y ago
    Good for you :), but it's not about individuals. Only a small portion of unvaccinated people are hospitalized. However, even 1% of a dense population is still a lot of people and hospitals + ICs get clogged up. The probability of hospitalization is 17x smaller for vaccinated people and the probability of needing IC treatment 33x smaller [1]. So, if all people were vaccinated, we wouldn't have the issues we had last 6 months. Now we have a lot of delayed surgeries, including cancer surgeries, etc. It’s a bit hyperbolic at this point, don’t you think? As the statistics show, no. Though luckily, things are changing now that Omicron is dominant, so I think all limitations are lifted pretty soon here. [1] https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/ongevaccineerde-COVID-19-patiënten-in-het-ziekenhuis-bijna-20jaar-jonger-dan-gevaccineerde https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/ongevaccineerde-COVID-19-patiënte...
radicalbyte 5y ago
I've lost a grandma, auntie and am about to lose a father-in-law. All have cancer that was either detected late or was not operable because of there being no IC spaces available. All because the hospitals and IC are full of people who chose not to vaccinate but who do get priority for medical care.
- ramoz 5y ago
  Perhaps the healthcare industry reacted poorly. The amount of yearly cancer deaths is similar, but higher, than Covid. I’m more familiar with hospitals giving cancer patients ultimatums to face icu, surgeries, and intensive treatments alone - and I saw this in an underwhelmed hospital well before there were vaccines.

by bsaul 5y ago

microtonal 5y ago

so why do you care ? Because the people who didn't want to be vaccinated take up all the hospital and intensive care beds, leading to many postponed surgeries. E.g. in The Netherlands in October, unvaccinated people took 70% of the intensive care beds allocated to COVID patients, while only being ~16% of the 18+ population. [1] [1] https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/ongevaccineerde-COVID-19-patiënten-in-het-ziekenhuis-bijna-20jaar-jonger-dan-gevaccineerde https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/ongevaccineerde-COVID-19-patiënte...

bsaul 5y ago
We had this statistic in france too, but it happens that ICU saturation occures every winter, for flu and such. it’s been on the headlines for almost a decade every year. Mostly due to population getting older, and hospitals poorer. I wonder if it isn’t the same everywhere.
StanislavPetrov 5y ago
Here in New York Andrew Cuomo spent the last decade closing hospitals and reducing hospital capacity at the behest of HMOs, for-profit hospitals, health insurance companies and associated banks and Wall Street investors. It is expensive to maintain hospitals and have enough spare hospital capacity in case of a crisis, and officials at the state and federal level chose profits over capacity. For the last 2 years, these same officials have telling us that we have no choice but to give up our freedoms, civil liberties and bodily autonomy because there aren't enough hospital beds. This was a manufactured crisis (even beyond the likely manufacturing of the virus in a CDC-funded Wuhan lab). 1975: U.S. population: 219 million Hospital beds: 1,465,828 Ratio: 1 bed per 149 people 2019: U.S. population: 334 million Hospital beds: 919,559 https://www.statista.com/statistics/185860/number-of-all-hospital-beds-in-the-us-since-2001/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/185860/number-of-all-hos...
dijonman2 5y ago
I’m not getting the vaccine and had covid twice. I have antibodies, which should be recognized in lieu of vaccine. I took no space in a hospital. It’s a bit hyperbolic at this point, don’t you think?
- microtonal 5y ago
  Good for you :), but it's not about individuals. Only a small portion of unvaccinated people are hospitalized. However, even 1% of a dense population is still a lot of people and hospitals + ICs get clogged up. The probability of hospitalization is 17x smaller for vaccinated people and the probability of needing IC treatment 33x smaller [1]. So, if all people were vaccinated, we wouldn't have the issues we had last 6 months. Now we have a lot of delayed surgeries, including cancer surgeries, etc. It’s a bit hyperbolic at this point, don’t you think? As the statistics show, no. Though luckily, things are changing now that Omicron is dominant, so I think all limitations are lifted pretty soon here. [1] https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/ongevaccineerde-COVID-19-patiënten-in-het-ziekenhuis-bijna-20jaar-jonger-dan-gevaccineerde https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/ongevaccineerde-COVID-19-patiënte...

radicalbyte 5y ago

I've lost a grandma, auntie and am about to lose a father-in-law. All have cancer that was either detected late or was not operable because of there being no IC spaces available. All because the hospitals and IC are full of people who chose not to vaccinate but who do get priority for medical care.

ramoz 5y ago
Perhaps the healthcare industry reacted poorly. The amount of yearly cancer deaths is similar, but higher, than Covid. I’m more familiar with hospitals giving cancer patients ultimatums to face icu, surgeries, and intensive treatments alone - and I saw this in an underwhelmed hospital well before there were vaccines.