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If it means that energy is cheaper for citizens of those countries (not states, but countries) that's good for them.

by iqanq 5y ago

Meritiooo 5y ago
Yes! Exactly perfect example of why this is critical to understand that it's egoistic and we need to change it to change the incentive. Cheap energy and the rest of the world is paying for it. Fair? No. Long term thinking? No. Good for your lungs, etc. No. Also faster we do the switch less expensive it will be due to the scaling effects taking off sooner. We know we need to transform.
petre 5y ago
It's more complicated than that. Their rulling elites don't want their country to be the next Kazahstan or Armenia. Energy pricing is a very sensitive subject and a powder keg. There was a poll in my EU country which is on that list. >50% of respondents said that the energy crisis is the fault of 1. energy companies and distributors 2. the state. People will take it to the streets the next thing after the state stops these social subsidies. The EU doesn't have a solution other than slowly forcing these contries onto a free energy market and to dominish these subsidies. I can't think of any other solution either.
- phicoh 5y ago
  In the end, what matters is not so much the subsidies, but how countries will reach the 55% reduction of green house gasses in 2030. Of course subsidies have an effect on that. But these effect varies from country to country and from sector to sector. Of course, calling out countries now that they have high subsidies on fossil fuels will help kicking those countries later if they fail to meet the 2030 objectives.
  - petre 5y ago
    It's probably going to be a carrot and stick issue in the EU. States have to do X to get EU funds or else trigger an infridgement procedure, get fined and get cut off from EU funds. At least that's how it works now. They're also careful to steadily increase the price of gas or electricity with a few percent every year since nobody wants mobs breaking storefronts and setting things on fire. Coal will probably be the first to go if everything goes smoothly and Poland is in a lot of trouble if they don't build at least 3 or 4 nuclear reactors.

If it means that energy is cheaper for citizens of those countries (not states, but countries) that's good for them.

by iqanq 5y ago

If it means that energy is cheaper for citizens of those countries (not states, but countries) that's good for them.

Yes! Exactly perfect example of why this is critical to understand that it's egoistic and we need to change it to change the incentive. Cheap energy and the rest of the world is paying for it. Fair? No. Long term thinking? No. Good for your lungs, etc. No. Also faster we do the switch less expensive it will be due to the scaling effects taking off sooner. We know we need to transform.

petre 5y ago

It's more complicated than that. Their rulling elites don't want their country to be the next Kazahstan or Armenia. Energy pricing is a very sensitive subject and a powder keg. There was a poll in my EU country which is on that list. >50% of respondents said that the energy crisis is the fault of 1. energy companies and distributors 2. the state. People will take it to the streets the next thing after the state stops these social subsidies. The EU doesn't have a solution other than slowly forcing these contries onto a free energy market and to dominish these subsidies. I can't think of any other solution either.

phicoh 5y ago
In the end, what matters is not so much the subsidies, but how countries will reach the 55% reduction of green house gasses in 2030. Of course subsidies have an effect on that. But these effect varies from country to country and from sector to sector. Of course, calling out countries now that they have high subsidies on fossil fuels will help kicking those countries later if they fail to meet the 2030 objectives.
- petre 5y ago
  It's probably going to be a carrot and stick issue in the EU. States have to do X to get EU funds or else trigger an infridgement procedure, get fined and get cut off from EU funds. At least that's how it works now. They're also careful to steadily increase the price of gas or electricity with a few percent every year since nobody wants mobs breaking storefronts and setting things on fire. Coal will probably be the first to go if everything goes smoothly and Poland is in a lot of trouble if they don't build at least 3 or 4 nuclear reactors.