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6510 5y ago
Its our collective badge of shame. Where are the ancient texts? With a different mind set we could have a mobile device with the first x years of internet preloaded. I kinda like that theme: There are lots of things that could have happened with a different mind set. The network before Eternal September was rather revolutionary on its own. If there is anything to learn for me it is that those who had the guts to think big never went big enough. In the end everything is politics. Programmers [like many other fields] like to live in denial there so the closest thing to a constructive effort was the pirate party which did nothing. We gave the world corporate monstrosities that lobby out of self interest. Who cares if your brain falls out.
keewee7 5y ago
And please remember to make good old server-rendered websites that can be archived by the Internet Archive.
- capableweb 5y ago
  In general I guess you can say that server-rendered websites are easier to assume they are archivable, but that doesn't mean a bit of client-side scripting will break the archiving process. If the scripts are also fetched (and not relying on 3rd party domains), the fetching and rendering process should work the same as long as the UI doesn't depend on API responses. Lightweight scripting, especially done within the <script> tags of the page, will work perfectly fine for most archiving software. Keep in mind all of them already fetch data from <img> tags, and most fetch 1st origin <script> src's as well.
  - hansel_der 5y ago
    if your collection of letters and images is unviewable without some modifiying logic, you're doing it wrong.
    - capableweb 5y ago
      Agreed! But just as client-side scripting doesn't mean "un-archivable", it also doesn't mean "require JS to be able to read/view content".
      - hansel_der 5y ago
        agreed! client-side scripting should not mean "unreadable w/o", nevertheless it often does.
        capableweb 5y ago
        If you're building SPAs, it usually does yeah. But I'm not sure how you went from "a bit of client-side scripting" and "Lightweight scripting" to "letters and images is unviewable without some modifiying logic" here in this thread? Sounds like you just want people to hear how much distaste you have for the dependence on JS for showing content?
        hansel_der 5y ago
        > Sounds like you just want people to hear how much distaste you have for the dependence on JS for showing content? i also want you to adopt and spread the pov, but yea.

6510 5y ago

Its our collective badge of shame. Where are the ancient texts? With a different mind set we could have a mobile device with the first x years of internet preloaded. I kinda like that theme: There are lots of things that could have happened with a different mind set. The network before Eternal September was rather revolutionary on its own. If there is anything to learn for me it is that those who had the guts to think big never went big enough. In the end everything is politics. Programmers [like many other fields] like to live in denial there so the closest thing to a constructive effort was the pirate party which did nothing. We gave the world corporate monstrosities that lobby out of self interest. Who cares if your brain falls out.

keewee7 5y ago

And please remember to make good old server-rendered websites that can be archived by the Internet Archive.

capableweb 5y ago
In general I guess you can say that server-rendered websites are easier to assume they are archivable, but that doesn't mean a bit of client-side scripting will break the archiving process. If the scripts are also fetched (and not relying on 3rd party domains), the fetching and rendering process should work the same as long as the UI doesn't depend on API responses. Lightweight scripting, especially done within the <script> tags of the page, will work perfectly fine for most archiving software. Keep in mind all of them already fetch data from <img> tags, and most fetch 1st origin <script> src's as well.
- hansel_der 5y ago
  if your collection of letters and images is unviewable without some modifiying logic, you're doing it wrong.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    Agreed! But just as client-side scripting doesn't mean "un-archivable", it also doesn't mean "require JS to be able to read/view content".
    - hansel_der 5y ago
      agreed! client-side scripting should not mean "unreadable w/o", nevertheless it often does.
      - capableweb 5y ago
        If you're building SPAs, it usually does yeah. But I'm not sure how you went from "a bit of client-side scripting" and "Lightweight scripting" to "letters and images is unviewable without some modifiying logic" here in this thread? Sounds like you just want people to hear how much distaste you have for the dependence on JS for showing content?
        hansel_der 5y ago
        > Sounds like you just want people to hear how much distaste you have for the dependence on JS for showing content? i also want you to adopt and spread the pov, but yea.