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The same could be said about the dollar. If I steal a large amount of money from a bank, or sell a bunch of drugs, I can't spend that money without laundering i

The same could be said about the dollar. If I steal a large amount of money from a bank, or sell a bunch of drugs, I can't spend that money without laundering it first, but that has nothing to do with the fungibility of the dollar. The "practical reality" is irrelevant because tracibility is orthogonal to fungibility. They're different properties.

boh 5y ago
Unlaundered, ill gotten gains will be accepted as legal tender. The money itself will not lose its value because you've tainted it with sin--you'll just likely be caught if you spend too much of it at once. You might notice the person at the 711 register isn't scanning bills to check their legitimacy.
- halestock 5y ago
  > The money itself will not lose its value because you've tainted it with sin--you'll just likely be caught if you spend too much of it at once. So how is this different from, say, using a tumbler? The crux of TFA's argument is that Bitcoin is tainted with sin.
- codeflo 5y ago
  In reality, few things are perfectly binary, there’s a spectrum between perfectly fungible and perfectly nonfungible. And yes, a million dollars of stolen cash is worth strictly less than a million dollars because (leaving ethics aside) it takes a nontrivial amount of time, money and risk to launder it before you can safely spend it.
  - boh 5y ago
    No there isn't a spectrum. A stolen million is still worth a million. If a thief is laundering the money, he's choosing to spend it--no dollar just loses value all of a sudden. You may be using cash once used to buy drugs or hire an assassin, but it doesn't get tainted and diminish your ability to spend it. Restricted Bitcoin literally cant be used for transactions making the Bitcoin itself worthless even if it wasn't you who committed the crime that got it restricted. That doesn't happen with cash.
  - halestock 5y ago
    Fungibility must be perfectly binary because it's an intrinsic property of the currency. And it's essential that it be treated as such because there are huge implications to whether or not a currency has that property. A million dollars of stolen cash is worth strictly less than a million dollars only because those bills cannot be exchanged for another million dollars. It does not mean that the dollars those bills represent is worth strictly less than a million dollars. Think about it this way. To launder your million bucks, you pay someone $10k. Does that mean the million is worth less? No- because the $10k you paid someone to launder it is still worth $10k! It's just not yours!
deleted 5y ago
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boh 5y ago

Unlaundered, ill gotten gains will be accepted as legal tender. The money itself will not lose its value because you've tainted it with sin--you'll just likely be caught if you spend too much of it at once. You might notice the person at the 711 register isn't scanning bills to check their legitimacy.

halestock 5y ago
> The money itself will not lose its value because you've tainted it with sin--you'll just likely be caught if you spend too much of it at once. So how is this different from, say, using a tumbler? The crux of TFA's argument is that Bitcoin is tainted with sin.
codeflo 5y ago
In reality, few things are perfectly binary, there’s a spectrum between perfectly fungible and perfectly nonfungible. And yes, a million dollars of stolen cash is worth strictly less than a million dollars because (leaving ethics aside) it takes a nontrivial amount of time, money and risk to launder it before you can safely spend it.
- boh 5y ago
  No there isn't a spectrum. A stolen million is still worth a million. If a thief is laundering the money, he's choosing to spend it--no dollar just loses value all of a sudden. You may be using cash once used to buy drugs or hire an assassin, but it doesn't get tainted and diminish your ability to spend it. Restricted Bitcoin literally cant be used for transactions making the Bitcoin itself worthless even if it wasn't you who committed the crime that got it restricted. That doesn't happen with cash.
- halestock 5y ago
  Fungibility must be perfectly binary because it's an intrinsic property of the currency. And it's essential that it be treated as such because there are huge implications to whether or not a currency has that property. A million dollars of stolen cash is worth strictly less than a million dollars only because those bills cannot be exchanged for another million dollars. It does not mean that the dollars those bills represent is worth strictly less than a million dollars. Think about it this way. To launder your million bucks, you pay someone $10k. Does that mean the million is worth less? No- because the $10k you paid someone to launder it is still worth $10k! It's just not yours!

deleted 5y ago

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