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> The difference is that you are demanding other people to make personal changes And now you are demanding that other people make personal changes by losing th

> The difference is that you are demanding other people to make personal changes And now you are demanding that other people make personal changes by losing the benefits of the iOS ecosystem (Apple Pay, privacy enforcement, app standards, etc.). > Others aren't obligated to follow your demands, which is why it's not your place to demand them to act against their own wishes. Stop demanding that I act against my wishes then? My wishes are one App Store owned and controlled by Apple. Stop bothering me. This works both ways. > You don't get to gatekeep who can be an iOS user, because nobody else is obligated to listen to you. This is pathetic. I’m gatekeeping? Ok nobody is obligated to listen to me. I’m not obligated to listen to them. So I guess we keep things as they are then. Or am I now obligated to listen to you? > Most iOS users will continue to get apps from Apple's App Store even if sideloading were allowed. Google allows sideloading on Android with restrictions, and almost all users get apps from the Play Store in regions where it is available. There is little reason to believe that the situation would be different on iOS. Ok then no reason to change a great service for the majority of users to satisfy a tiny minority of use… I mean developers who want better margins. > Having said that, I have yet to see any high-profile Android app pull out from the Play Store without returning soon after Because Google is a fox in the hen house. They have the same privacy-invading business model. Of course they don’t care. > I will continue to note that Apple's iOS restrictions are anti-competitive, because they prevent other app stores from competing with Apple's App Store on iOS. Walmart is not selling homes that require the homeowner to buy all of their groceries and appliances from Walmart. Also, Walmart and Kroger don't have a duopoly in any country, while Apple and Google do in many countries. Duopolies and other uncompetitive markets are not free markets, and they don't accurately reflect consumer preferences. Duopolies naturally occur in free markets. In fact, monopolies do too. It’s not a big deal and a duopoly frothing into existence does not de facto necessitate anti-competitive behavior. (Just as multiple companies can have anti-competitive behaviors. Remember Tech salary collusion amongst the major players?) This is even more true in the case of Apple where consumers benefit because of Apple’s ability to collectively bargain against developers on behalf of users. Should ASML be forced to dissolve or create a competitor since they’re the only ones who can make the machines they do? That’s a monopoly. Your “re-analogy” of the situation with Wal-Mart and Kroger falls flat because if Wal-Mart did sell a house and as part of the sale required or just outfitted the house with all Wal-Mart products nobody would consider that anti-competitive behavior. The grocery example just doesn’t make sense at all unless you wanted to maybe talk about calling Kroger for groceries and then demanding they go pick up from Wal-Mart. Instead a better analogy is looking at Kroger and the products they sell at Kroger as the market. Kroger enforces some standards like POS systems, one or two types of carts, employees who stock shelves or whatever and then Kroger takes margin on the products they sell. To continue, the analogy would be a company saying Kroger should allow them to set up their own shop inside Kroger, and then sell products in that shop and not give Kroger a cut. You’d walk in and there would be multiple POS systems, you’d have different employees some who could help you and some who can only help you in the sub-store. You’d have different carts, and some of the sub-stores would install security cameras and tracking devices. Kroger customer service couldn’t help you. It’s just a nightmare. But hey now I can download Signal as a Chinese person except that if there are any legit other app stores they’ll just comply with CCP demands anyway and we’re back to just sideloading apps. But hey Netflix got a better commission instead of Apple and now my life is worse. Sounds great!

commoner 5y ago
Nobody is demanding that you make a personal change. If you are currently using Apple's App Store for all of your purchases, you can continue to do that regardless of whether sideloading is available. Your existing choice would still available to you even if sideloading were an option, so you would not be making a change, because you are not being asked to take any action. On the other hand, you are demanding others to make a change by switching ecosystems, an action that others are not inclined to take due to the costs of switching. Your demand is gatekeeping because you are arguing that people should be iOS users only if they are against sideloading, which is not an opinion that all iOS users agree with. Lawmakers are elected to pass laws that represent the interests of their country's citizens, such as the Open App Markets Act[1] in the U.S., which would prevent Apple from enforcing its anti-competitive restriction against sideloading on iOS. Duopolies and uncompetitive markets like Apple's and Google's duopoly on mobile app stores result in deadweight loss,[2] which limits economic growth. This and the fact that restrictions against sideloading limit consumer choice are why there is momentum for passing new antitrust laws that curb Apple's and Google's anti-competitive behavior, including Apple's prohibition against competing app stores on iOS. You are free to wish otherwise and to petition lawmakers to support Apple's monopoly/duopoly, but the momentum of legislation is going against your wishes. Your store analogy is flawed because when someone owns an iPhone, that phone is the user's property, not Apple's property. On the other hand, Walmart stores, Kroger stores, and Apple's App Store belong to Walmart, Kroger, and Apple, not their customers. Apple imposing anti-competitive restrictions on phones that do not belong to them is completely different from Apple imposing restrictions on their own App Store. Sideloading does not involve Apple or Apple's App Store at all, it only involves the user and the source that the user chooses to obtain the app from. You can choose to shop exclusively at Apple, Walmart, or Kroger, and the existence of other separate stores would not prevent you from continuing to do so. App stores available to users in China do not have to be hosted in China. Sideloading combined with a VPN would allow iOS users in China to download, install, and use any iOS app published in any country. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195167 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss
- ericmay 5y ago

commoner 5y ago

Nobody is demanding that you make a personal change. If you are currently using Apple's App Store for all of your purchases, you can continue to do that regardless of whether sideloading is available. Your existing choice would still available to you even if sideloading were an option, so you would not be making a change, because you are not being asked to take any action. On the other hand, you are demanding others to make a change by switching ecosystems, an action that others are not inclined to take due to the costs of switching. Your demand is gatekeeping because you are arguing that people should be iOS users only if they are against sideloading, which is not an opinion that all iOS users agree with. Lawmakers are elected to pass laws that represent the interests of their country's citizens, such as the Open App Markets Act[1] in the U.S., which would prevent Apple from enforcing its anti-competitive restriction against sideloading on iOS. Duopolies and uncompetitive markets like Apple's and Google's duopoly on mobile app stores result in deadweight loss,[2] which limits economic growth. This and the fact that restrictions against sideloading limit consumer choice are why there is momentum for passing new antitrust laws that curb Apple's and Google's anti-competitive behavior, including Apple's prohibition against competing app stores on iOS. You are free to wish otherwise and to petition lawmakers to support Apple's monopoly/duopoly, but the momentum of legislation is going against your wishes. Your store analogy is flawed because when someone owns an iPhone, that phone is the user's property, not Apple's property. On the other hand, Walmart stores, Kroger stores, and Apple's App Store belong to Walmart, Kroger, and Apple, not their customers. Apple imposing anti-competitive restrictions on phones that do not belong to them is completely different from Apple imposing restrictions on their own App Store. Sideloading does not involve Apple or Apple's App Store at all, it only involves the user and the source that the user chooses to obtain the app from. You can choose to shop exclusively at Apple, Walmart, or Kroger, and the existence of other separate stores would not prevent you from continuing to do so. App stores available to users in China do not have to be hosted in China. Sideloading combined with a VPN would allow iOS users in China to download, install, and use any iOS app published in any country. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195167 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss

ericmay 5y ago