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Actually it's relevant as a reminder of the importance of privacy coins, for they are the only way to avoid wrench attacks.

by leppr 5y ago

olah_1 5y ago
You can still get wrench attacked for your Monero in the same exact way. It's just a risk of self-custody of keys and it's a good reason for the industry to push forward better key management solutions (multi-sig + shamir secret sharing, etc)
8note 5y ago
Can you not be wrenched into giving away your privacy coins? You're still a single point of failure, aren't you? Apply wrench until you've given up all the privacy coins you have access to
- leppr 5y ago
  Privacy coins give you plausible deniability. Attackers don't know what you own, because the balances are private.
  - olah_1 5y ago
    Muggers on the street don’t know what’s in your wallet either. But they still want whatever is in there. Until wallets gets smarter and safer, and these smart/safe features are so mainstream that even muggers understand it, this will always be a risk
    - leppr 5y ago
      So you give them dust contained in your decoy wallet. The problem with cryptos with public balances is that attackers can know your net worth in advance, and thus know whether you're a valuable target, and exactly how much they can ask of you. And this is the reason why privacy technology likely won't be outlawed: high networth individuals use them constantly.
      - olah_1 5y ago
        > The problem with cryptos with public balances is that attackers can know your net worth in advance, and thus know whether you're a valuable target, and exactly how much they can ask of you. Not really... a mugger can read people well enough to know that they have more than $100. More than $1000, etc. A random person older than 30 can likely give you a lot more than $2000 even. So this goes back to wallets needing to be smarter all around. I expect there to be companies/services that spring up specifically around this need. However, one thing that I predict in the next 5 years is that people will simply stop having crypto wallets on their phones. They will either not have mobile access to their savings accounts at all or they will use something like a SatsCard that only has like $100 on it https://getsatscard.com/ https://getsatscard.com/
        leppr 5y ago
        Random attacks on the street are a problem, but the "wrench attack" trope relates more to targeted attacks against known victims, which are becoming increasingly common. In many countries, kidnapping and torturing someone for $2000 is not worth the risk for anyone. But for amounts 6 figure and up, it makes good risk-adjusted sense to many people. Given how few people have a proper security setup, cryptocurrencies with KYC'd accounts and public balances are lists of juicy extortion targets.

Actually it's relevant as a reminder of the importance of privacy coins, for they are the only way to avoid wrench attacks.

by leppr 5y ago

Actually it's relevant as a reminder of the importance of privacy coins, for they are the only way to avoid wrench attacks.

olah_1 5y ago

You can still get wrench attacked for your Monero in the same exact way. It's just a risk of self-custody of keys and it's a good reason for the industry to push forward better key management solutions (multi-sig + shamir secret sharing, etc)

8note 5y ago

Can you not be wrenched into giving away your privacy coins? You're still a single point of failure, aren't you? Apply wrench until you've given up all the privacy coins you have access to

leppr 5y ago
Privacy coins give you plausible deniability. Attackers don't know what you own, because the balances are private.
- olah_1 5y ago
  Muggers on the street don’t know what’s in your wallet either. But they still want whatever is in there. Until wallets gets smarter and safer, and these smart/safe features are so mainstream that even muggers understand it, this will always be a risk
  - leppr 5y ago
    So you give them dust contained in your decoy wallet. The problem with cryptos with public balances is that attackers can know your net worth in advance, and thus know whether you're a valuable target, and exactly how much they can ask of you. And this is the reason why privacy technology likely won't be outlawed: high networth individuals use them constantly.
    - olah_1 5y ago
      > The problem with cryptos with public balances is that attackers can know your net worth in advance, and thus know whether you're a valuable target, and exactly how much they can ask of you. Not really... a mugger can read people well enough to know that they have more than $100. More than $1000, etc. A random person older than 30 can likely give you a lot more than $2000 even. So this goes back to wallets needing to be smarter all around. I expect there to be companies/services that spring up specifically around this need. However, one thing that I predict in the next 5 years is that people will simply stop having crypto wallets on their phones. They will either not have mobile access to their savings accounts at all or they will use something like a SatsCard that only has like $100 on it https://getsatscard.com/ https://getsatscard.com/
      - leppr 5y ago
        Random attacks on the street are a problem, but the "wrench attack" trope relates more to targeted attacks against known victims, which are becoming increasingly common. In many countries, kidnapping and torturing someone for $2000 is not worth the risk for anyone. But for amounts 6 figure and up, it makes good risk-adjusted sense to many people. Given how few people have a proper security setup, cryptocurrencies with KYC'd accounts and public balances are lists of juicy extortion targets.