5 ms·

Ahh yes, failure to publish every possible fact is clearly a liberal conspiracy. Maybe we should make it illegal to teach kids about slavery, that’d really hel

by freen 5y ago

Ahh yes, failure to publish every possible fact is clearly a liberal conspiracy. Maybe we should make it illegal to teach kids about slavery, that’d really help. Tribalism is a hell of a drug.

TimTheTinker 5y ago
> Tribalism is a hell of a drug. It's also extremely frustrating to people who are personally committed to pursue what is true (to the best of their ability), regardless of the consequences. Every fact seems to have an attached political value or leaning. So various journalistic outlets intentionally omit facts that don't agree with their narrative -- which is lying by omission. That combined with falsely associating certain events with certain groups to smear their reputation makes the modern news indistinguishable from oppressive propaganda -- and that on both sides of the aisle. Such suppression of truth ought to be unheard of in what used to be known as the "free" world. What happened to impartiality? Truth above all is what creates freedom, not any particular narrative or agenda.
- freen 5y ago
  That’s clearly why the GOP is making it illegal to teach kids about slavery and it’s repercussions.
tomjen3 5y ago
>Tribalism is a hell of a drug. Try to read that comment and again and see how much effect tribalism has had on you.
- freen 5y ago
  So I take it you are in favor of banning critical race theory in schools? In favor of violent insurrection in an attempt to overthrow a free and fair election? I don’t disagree that I am a member of a tribe. That’s not the problem. The problem is when tribes see their own behavior as default good because it is their own tribe and don’t hold themselves to standards that exist beyond any individual tribe. Which is precisely what the practice of democracy is: an agreed upon set of principles that extend beyond any individual tribe and to which all tribes agree to hold themselves accountable. One tribe, though, doesn’t anymore. That’s terrifying.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    >That’s not the problem. The problem is when tribes see their own behavior as default good because it is their own tribe and don’t hold themselves to standards that exist beyond any individual tribe. That is one of your problems, yes. The other is to see everybody who disagrees with you as the same. If society wants to come together it must first treat each and every person as what they are: unique individuals, defined by their actions and not by arbitrary bodily charicaristica such as eye wave-light reflection or skin melamin content.
    - freen 5y ago
      Tribalism is an inescapable component of humanity, at least for the near term. Look: if different tribes can’t agree on the fundamental rules for peaceful co-existence, nothing else really matters. Whatever else different tribes and/or their members might agree upon are irrelevant: we have lost the fundamental peaceful mechanism for conflict resolution. We are back at barbarism/warlords/autocracy. January 6th’s “legitimate political discourse” is literally one tribe’s full fledged abandonment of the mechanisms we have used to ensure peace and prosperity for generations. That way lies a special hell for us all. No other interpersonal agreements/disagreements are relevant without peaceful mechanisms to manage disagreements. You have a beautiful idealism about the irrelevance of bodily characteristics that is unfortunately deeply divorced from the reality of the world. Would be nice to live in a platonic ideal, but as it stands, while race is a fiction, racism is extremely real.
mikewarot 5y ago
>Ahh yes, failure to publish every possible fact is clearly a liberal conspiracy. Where did you get the mistaken impression that there is anything liberal about NPR? Name a major news organization that is not pushing an agenda, since the fall of the fairness doctrine.
- freen 5y ago
  International news organizations don’t really have a dog in the American Left\Roght divide, and yes, they all pretty much agree that the Modern GOP is terrifying and batshit insane.

by freen 5y ago

Ahh yes, failure to publish every possible fact is clearly a liberal conspiracy. Maybe we should make it illegal to teach kids about slavery, that’d really help. Tribalism is a hell of a drug.

TimTheTinker 5y ago

> Tribalism is a hell of a drug. It's also extremely frustrating to people who are personally committed to pursue what is true (to the best of their ability), regardless of the consequences. Every fact seems to have an attached political value or leaning. So various journalistic outlets intentionally omit facts that don't agree with their narrative -- which is lying by omission. That combined with falsely associating certain events with certain groups to smear their reputation makes the modern news indistinguishable from oppressive propaganda -- and that on both sides of the aisle. Such suppression of truth ought to be unheard of in what used to be known as the "free" world. What happened to impartiality? Truth above all is what creates freedom, not any particular narrative or agenda.

freen 5y ago
That’s clearly why the GOP is making it illegal to teach kids about slavery and it’s repercussions.

tomjen3 5y ago

>Tribalism is a hell of a drug. Try to read that comment and again and see how much effect tribalism has had on you.

freen 5y ago
So I take it you are in favor of banning critical race theory in schools? In favor of violent insurrection in an attempt to overthrow a free and fair election? I don’t disagree that I am a member of a tribe. That’s not the problem. The problem is when tribes see their own behavior as default good because it is their own tribe and don’t hold themselves to standards that exist beyond any individual tribe. Which is precisely what the practice of democracy is: an agreed upon set of principles that extend beyond any individual tribe and to which all tribes agree to hold themselves accountable. One tribe, though, doesn’t anymore. That’s terrifying.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  >That’s not the problem. The problem is when tribes see their own behavior as default good because it is their own tribe and don’t hold themselves to standards that exist beyond any individual tribe. That is one of your problems, yes. The other is to see everybody who disagrees with you as the same. If society wants to come together it must first treat each and every person as what they are: unique individuals, defined by their actions and not by arbitrary bodily charicaristica such as eye wave-light reflection or skin melamin content.
  - freen 5y ago
    Tribalism is an inescapable component of humanity, at least for the near term. Look: if different tribes can’t agree on the fundamental rules for peaceful co-existence, nothing else really matters. Whatever else different tribes and/or their members might agree upon are irrelevant: we have lost the fundamental peaceful mechanism for conflict resolution. We are back at barbarism/warlords/autocracy. January 6th’s “legitimate political discourse” is literally one tribe’s full fledged abandonment of the mechanisms we have used to ensure peace and prosperity for generations. That way lies a special hell for us all. No other interpersonal agreements/disagreements are relevant without peaceful mechanisms to manage disagreements. You have a beautiful idealism about the irrelevance of bodily characteristics that is unfortunately deeply divorced from the reality of the world. Would be nice to live in a platonic ideal, but as it stands, while race is a fiction, racism is extremely real.

mikewarot 5y ago

>Ahh yes, failure to publish every possible fact is clearly a liberal conspiracy. Where did you get the mistaken impression that there is anything liberal about NPR? Name a major news organization that is not pushing an agenda, since the fall of the fairness doctrine.

freen 5y ago
International news organizations don’t really have a dog in the American Left\Roght divide, and yes, they all pretty much agree that the Modern GOP is terrifying and batshit insane.