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Trezor also added KYC: https://cryptonews.com/news/trezor-ditches-controversial-kyc-feature-plans-features-cut-off-regulatory-overreach.htm https://cryptonews.c

Trezor also added KYC: https://cryptonews.com/news/trezor-ditches-controversial-kyc-feature-plans-features-cut-off-regulatory-overreach.htm https://cryptonews.com/news/trezor-ditches-controversial-kyc... It’s a strange thing, because I always thought of Slush as a great guy who understands the importance of fungibility (and he was the main reason I bought Trezor instead of something else), but the company changed over time.

magicjosh 5y ago
Wow lots to unpack there. For those reading, the title says "Trezor Ditches a Controversial KYC Feature, Plans Features to 'Cut Off Regulatory Overreach'" Apparently Trezor added a KYC system called AOPP. Then backlash. Then they said they would roll it back (as of the article). Have they rolled it back yet? They said it will be rolled out in February. Edit: Trezor blog post about the rollback here: https://blog.trezor.io/a-decision-on-aopp-789540c2930b?gi=f39ad0a68391 https://blog.trezor.io/a-decision-on-aopp-789540c2930b?gi=f3... I always wondered what Trezor's fundraising plan is. My guess is once they started to see the money come in from taking fees they started to say "we'll be the next Coinbase!!!". Do you have any more analysis of this addition to Trezor? As a Trezor user, this reminds me of Apple's push for on-device scanning. That Trezor even added this feature temporarily has me looking for alternatives. Anyone have suggestions?
- xiphias2 5y ago
  ColdCard is coming out with a new version, I just listened to an interview with him by Stephan Livera, and he seems like a person with integrity if you are looking for BTC only wallet. The only problem for me in practice was that the red light was blinking instead of the green, which shouldn't have been happening (I reflashed the software on the device in my multisig setup, which I decreased the trust somewhat). If I would have been more patient, I would have sent back the device for a replacement.
  - magicjosh 5y ago
    I will check out ColdCard again, thanks! Last I checked they were Bitcoin-only. edit: still bitcoin-only Seems like Trezor "blinked" here and tried to keep everyone happy. I wonder if Block/Square is going to eat Trezor's lunch by providing a badass wallet for people that don't care about KYC. And then ColdCard will be for users that are strictly anti-KYC. And Trezor gets stuck in the middle and goes out of business.
    - xiphias2 5y ago
      I'm Bitcoin only as well, and Block/Square hardware wallet will be the same, so it probably won't be good for you either. There are lots of features in Bitcoin that are important and not addressed by mixed wallets because of the lack of development time, so these two types of wallets are getting separated by the market (which I see as a good thing both for Bitcoiners and mixed-coiners).
      - xiphias2 5y ago
        I can't reply to you because of the depth limit of HN, but generally Jameson Lopp does extremely serious testing of hardware wallets (blog.lopp.net)
      - magicjosh 5y ago
        Appreciate the thoughtful reply! I'm biased towards specialization myself. With that in mind, I'm jazzed to see different species of hardware wallets proliferate. Any good sites tracking all the different types? edit: thanks!
wcoenen 5y ago
The core bitcoin wallet has a "signmessage" API call that can be used to sign a message with the private key behind an address, thus proving ownership of the address. So it seems to me that by this logic, the core bitcoin wallet also "has KYC". edit: in fact that AOPP thing appears to be just a thin layer on top of signmessage. https://gitlab.com/aopp/address-ownership-proof-protocol/-/blob/master/README.md https://gitlab.com/aopp/address-ownership-proof-protocol/-/b...
- xiphias2 5y ago
  The basic ethos of Bitcoin development is that every feature that doesn't improve scalability, security or fungibility of Bitcoin is a potential security vulnerability. Even if it's just a thin layer, if it's implemented, it's destroying years of work of improving Bitcoin fungability.
  - wcoenen 5y ago
    The kid pointing out that the emperor has no clothes is not destroying the tailor's past work to improve the emperor's clothing situation. Similarly, making use of features and properties that Bitcoin already has, is not reducing fungability. Bitcoin simply does not have fungability. The emperor has no clothes.

magicjosh 5y ago

Wow lots to unpack there. For those reading, the title says "Trezor Ditches a Controversial KYC Feature, Plans Features to 'Cut Off Regulatory Overreach'" Apparently Trezor added a KYC system called AOPP. Then backlash. Then they said they would roll it back (as of the article). Have they rolled it back yet? They said it will be rolled out in February. Edit: Trezor blog post about the rollback here: https://blog.trezor.io/a-decision-on-aopp-789540c2930b?gi=f39ad0a68391 https://blog.trezor.io/a-decision-on-aopp-789540c2930b?gi=f3... I always wondered what Trezor's fundraising plan is. My guess is once they started to see the money come in from taking fees they started to say "we'll be the next Coinbase!!!". Do you have any more analysis of this addition to Trezor? As a Trezor user, this reminds me of Apple's push for on-device scanning. That Trezor even added this feature temporarily has me looking for alternatives. Anyone have suggestions?

xiphias2 5y ago
ColdCard is coming out with a new version, I just listened to an interview with him by Stephan Livera, and he seems like a person with integrity if you are looking for BTC only wallet. The only problem for me in practice was that the red light was blinking instead of the green, which shouldn't have been happening (I reflashed the software on the device in my multisig setup, which I decreased the trust somewhat). If I would have been more patient, I would have sent back the device for a replacement.
- magicjosh 5y ago
  I will check out ColdCard again, thanks! Last I checked they were Bitcoin-only. edit: still bitcoin-only Seems like Trezor "blinked" here and tried to keep everyone happy. I wonder if Block/Square is going to eat Trezor's lunch by providing a badass wallet for people that don't care about KYC. And then ColdCard will be for users that are strictly anti-KYC. And Trezor gets stuck in the middle and goes out of business.
  - xiphias2 5y ago
    I'm Bitcoin only as well, and Block/Square hardware wallet will be the same, so it probably won't be good for you either. There are lots of features in Bitcoin that are important and not addressed by mixed wallets because of the lack of development time, so these two types of wallets are getting separated by the market (which I see as a good thing both for Bitcoiners and mixed-coiners).
    - xiphias2 5y ago
      I can't reply to you because of the depth limit of HN, but generally Jameson Lopp does extremely serious testing of hardware wallets (blog.lopp.net)
    - magicjosh 5y ago
      Appreciate the thoughtful reply! I'm biased towards specialization myself. With that in mind, I'm jazzed to see different species of hardware wallets proliferate. Any good sites tracking all the different types? edit: thanks!

wcoenen 5y ago

The core bitcoin wallet has a "signmessage" API call that can be used to sign a message with the private key behind an address, thus proving ownership of the address. So it seems to me that by this logic, the core bitcoin wallet also "has KYC". edit: in fact that AOPP thing appears to be just a thin layer on top of signmessage. https://gitlab.com/aopp/address-ownership-proof-protocol/-/blob/master/README.md https://gitlab.com/aopp/address-ownership-proof-protocol/-/b...

xiphias2 5y ago
The basic ethos of Bitcoin development is that every feature that doesn't improve scalability, security or fungibility of Bitcoin is a potential security vulnerability. Even if it's just a thin layer, if it's implemented, it's destroying years of work of improving Bitcoin fungability.
- wcoenen 5y ago
  The kid pointing out that the emperor has no clothes is not destroying the tailor's past work to improve the emperor's clothing situation. Similarly, making use of features and properties that Bitcoin already has, is not reducing fungability. Bitcoin simply does not have fungability. The emperor has no clothes.