4 ms·

There is another view that these “old foes” are dividing east europe again. At the end of the day its convenient for germany to have an underdeveloped east euro

There is another view that these “old foes” are dividing east europe again. At the end of the day its convenient for germany to have an underdeveloped east europe as it is for russia to have a long buffer between its citizens and west european values. A win win situation that indeed prevents war. The view goes on to say that attempting to ban nuclear eu wide will make europe even more dependant on russia, enabling to latter to blackmail the continent as it pleases. And finally, the less common view is that germany and russia both grinned a bit when the uk left the eu after germany conveniently pushed for mass migration (at the same time russia defending the push factor government of syria) while it being a decisive vote swinger in the uk. Fun times we live in.

estaseuropano 5y ago
A lot to unpack in your post, but to tackle just the most egregious one: what would Germany have to gain in keeping its neighbors poor? German companies do far more trade with Poland than Russia, not to mention the other Eastern EU (Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, baltics) and non-EU countries. Germany has every interest in helping the East develop and do so. E.g. in 2020 they quickly pushed for joint EU bonds to inject money into the eastern countries (and Italy and Spain)
- hobofan 5y ago
  > Germany have to gain in keeping its neighbors poor? Cheap labor that's also close? I don't know how big the impact would be if they were to go away, but e.g. agriculture relies on eastern europeans as farmhands, and the construction industry as well.
  - burneracct33 5y ago
    And most important lower tech, meaning less competition for german made products. You know, better keep them east europeans developed enough to rid germany of old cars and hardware but poor enough to prevent them from manufacturing their own as they wouldnt afford the bleeding edge tech required to meed demand, and ideally, they wouldnt be able to invest in cheap nuclear power to lower costs. So while east eu products are deemed low quality, germany is perfectly fine with importing chinese products that barely meet eu standards.
- burneracct33 5y ago
  > E.g. in 2020 they quickly pushed for joint EU bonds to inject money into the eastern countries (and Italy and Spain) Basically to subsidise buying german products. While Italy and Spain have a debt issue, east eu has an entry barrier issue, always playing catchup with expensive eu regulation. Take nuclear. We know what country pushes for an eu wide ban and thats a basic example of what east eu needs to lower costs. The only “benefit” of german imposed economic policies is that they sunk south europe to a stage where if east europe is smart it can overtake it economically. But you know made in east eu is low quality yet made in china is fine, so say the germans.

estaseuropano 5y ago

A lot to unpack in your post, but to tackle just the most egregious one: what would Germany have to gain in keeping its neighbors poor? German companies do far more trade with Poland than Russia, not to mention the other Eastern EU (Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, baltics) and non-EU countries. Germany has every interest in helping the East develop and do so. E.g. in 2020 they quickly pushed for joint EU bonds to inject money into the eastern countries (and Italy and Spain)

hobofan 5y ago
> Germany have to gain in keeping its neighbors poor? Cheap labor that's also close? I don't know how big the impact would be if they were to go away, but e.g. agriculture relies on eastern europeans as farmhands, and the construction industry as well.
- burneracct33 5y ago
  And most important lower tech, meaning less competition for german made products. You know, better keep them east europeans developed enough to rid germany of old cars and hardware but poor enough to prevent them from manufacturing their own as they wouldnt afford the bleeding edge tech required to meed demand, and ideally, they wouldnt be able to invest in cheap nuclear power to lower costs. So while east eu products are deemed low quality, germany is perfectly fine with importing chinese products that barely meet eu standards.
burneracct33 5y ago
> E.g. in 2020 they quickly pushed for joint EU bonds to inject money into the eastern countries (and Italy and Spain) Basically to subsidise buying german products. While Italy and Spain have a debt issue, east eu has an entry barrier issue, always playing catchup with expensive eu regulation. Take nuclear. We know what country pushes for an eu wide ban and thats a basic example of what east eu needs to lower costs. The only “benefit” of german imposed economic policies is that they sunk south europe to a stage where if east europe is smart it can overtake it economically. But you know made in east eu is low quality yet made in china is fine, so say the germans.