14 ms·
It's a protest not an occupation
by 6d6b73 5y ago
It's a protest not an occupation
- PierceJoy 5y agoYou obviously don’t live in Ottawa.
- blast 5y agoIt's obviously a peaceful protest*. The word "occupation" here is already spin from the side that wants to shut it down and is trying to build a case for doing so. Peaceful protest involves physically assembling and making noise. That is no doubt unpleasant both for those who disagree with the protestors and those who live in the neighborhood, but the right to do this in public is fundamental and vital in democratic society. I thought we were all raised to understand that? For the life of me I can't understand people who are so ready to trash those rights just because they don't happen to agree with a cause. Either these are democratic rights or they aren't, and if they are then they apply to everybody. * Edit: I shouldn't have said obviously. I should have said: from what I've seen. Some people are posting that there have been violent things going on, but those claims have come without evidence. In the few cases where I have seen objective information, such claims have turned out to be exaggerated. If I see objective information showing that the protestors have turned violent, I will change my mind. (As long as it is clear that it really was the protestors and not someone trying to make them look bad, since that kind of thing also happens at protests.)
- SECProto 5y agoA friend was shoved into a snowbank by a protester because she wore a mask. I was verbally assaulted for the same while skating on the canal. They're not peaceful.
- s1artibartfast 5y agoI think the real struggle is understanding the degree to which they are peaceful or not. Obviously nothing is black or white. As an example, I was once shoved by a person. People are not peaceful
- seemack 5y agoIsn't it exactly that then? You were shoved into a snowbank once and put this forward as an example of people not being peaceful. Unsuspecting and uninvolved people are being shoved by protesters. Therefore, this is not a peaceful protest.
- s1artibartfast 5y agoI think most would agree that not every single protester has been peaceful at all times. Now what?
- seemack 5y agoThat's it. We've successfully answered the question of if it is a peaceful protest.
- s1artibartfast 5y agonow we go back to step 1. >I think the real struggle is understanding the degree to which they are peaceful or not. Obviously nothing is black or white. I would also add, the next struggle is what it impact it should have on our reaction, if any. Obviously violence has nothing to do if someone if right or wrong, but it does have to do with if they should be tolerated. At what point do we no longer tolerate protests based on some violent indivduals? What if their leaders endorse violence? If 1% of protesters are violent? If 0.001% are violent? These are the real questions, and not particularly new ones.... There was a lot of violence from US civil rights protesters, people even got violent at MLK protests. But still, there is a limit somewhere. I think protests should be shut down if the leaders endorse violence. Beyond that, it is really hard to say. Maybe percent is a bad way to think about it, and we should look at damage, IDK.
- seemack 5y agoAh I see what you were meaning now. I agree, while we could say zero violence in a perfect world, we know that is it rife with conflicting interpretations in the real world. I agree with the leaders endorsing violence being a clear market for an unacceptable protest. Beyond that, I would probably leave it to some authority like a judge. They could make the call based on number/severity of incidents, etc.
- rabuse 5y agoBLM protestors were going around pouring drinks on diner's heads, and eating their food off their plates, then assaulting them. GoFundMe had no issues with that.
- polski-g 5y ago
- CheezeIt 5y agoBut why were you wearing a mask outside?
- HappySweeney 5y agoThis is victim blaming.
- defaultname 5y agoIt is literally, by every definition, an occupation. People came in and brought homes with them (sleeper cabs, RVs, etc). Now they have set up permanent structures such as kitchens and other facilities (today they brought in a sauna), and have been stating repeatedly that they are in for the long haul. There is a reason that's called an occupation. A protest is normally a discomfort for the protester. Enduring the elements. Going without. But waving a flag and chanting slogans that convey a message. Here we have a bunch of people in transport trucks blasting their horn 24/7.
- notadev 5y agoAre you being truthful about the 24/7 horn blasting? I’ve seen reports on Twitter that the convoy stops horns at 10 PM because they’re not protesting the Canadian people/Ottawa citizens. Is there any video of the horns honking 24/7?
- gjsman-1000 5y agoGoFundMe literally had no problem with CHAZ/CHOP and BLM protest funding in the middle of a pandemic.
- defaultname 5y agoSo we agree, GFM should have nothing to do with any occupation, right? You agree with this, correct? You think that I'm some sort of partisan in this -- perhaps a projection -- and you caught me in hypocrisy. But you didn't. Financing protests is an incredibly dangerous game. I was against BLM justified violence and looting, as well as the various "free" zones. I was against the railway blockades in Canada (due to complex aboriginal issues) I am against the trucker occupations and criminal harassment of the citizens of Ottawa and other jurisdictions (and I think they should be layered with so many fines their trucks become the property of the state). I'm remarkably consistent on this. Law and order is good. Democracy is good.
- jterrys 5y ago
- seemack 5y agoI live in Ottawa. This is not simply unpleasant noise that the residents downtown are being forced to live through. This is a large number of transport trucks and various general trucks blowing their horns throughout the day and night. There are multiple trucks driving around with train horns which are extremely loud. A lawsuit has been filed against this tactic being used by the protesters (https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/class-action-suit-claims-air-horns-causing-unbearable-torment https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/class-action-suit-...) Nor is it limited to auditory harassment. Some examples: - Convoy protesters harass local shelter for free food. It's not that big a stretch to characterize this as stealing from the homeless since that's specifically who the food is meant for. https://twitter.com/sghottawa/status/1487854425368633344 https://twitter.com/sghottawa/status/1487854425368633344 - Rocks thrown at ambulance as well as anti-asian slurs towards the paramedic https://ottawa.citynews.ca/local-news/rocks-hurled-at-ottawa-ambulance-at-downtown-truck-convoy-5011107 https://ottawa.citynews.ca/local-news/rocks-hurled-at-ottawa... - Protester dances atop national monument "Tomb of the Fallen Soldier" https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/police-look-to-identify-suspect-in-desecration-of-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-1.5765615 https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/police-look-to-identify-suspect-in... Explanation for the monument: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tomb_of_the_Unknown_Soldier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tomb_of_the_Unknown_S... Protesters refusing to wear masks within hotels and subjecting employees of said hotels who have given no consent to this behaviour - https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/truck-convoy-police-to-launch-surge-and-contain-strategy-this-weekend-city-councillors-plan-centretown-patrol https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/truck-convoy-polic... Protesters flying Nazi flags - https://twitter.com/yonifreedhoff/status/1487517973422223374?s=21 https://twitter.com/yonifreedhoff/status/1487517973422223374... Downtown mall forced to close as protesters enter and refuse to wear masks - https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/rideau-centre-closes-after-maskless-protesters-are-seen-confronting-staff/wcm/0c9ecbc2-8073-4a4a-a4e3-f8f6cfb8ab6a/amp/ https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/rideau-centre-clos... I personally know people who have been verbally intimidated for wearing a mask, one who was screamed at and pushed to the ground for wearing a mask, and another who was threatened with rape as she walked into her place of work. A number of businesses have closed for the weekend due to safety concerns and have subsequently been brigaded with negative comment and reviews on their google listings. Of course, you can make the claim that the participants are not actually protesters but could be false flag, paid actors, antifa or whatever. I personally think that's reaching. I've lived here for many years, seeing many large protests come and go, and I've never seen such an influx of hateful incidents. I fully agree with their right to protest and sympathize with some of their complaints but these tactics are in no way acceptable or peaceful. People need rest and these protesters are denying this to a huge amount of people. People should feel safe walking through the streets of their city and people absolutely do not feel safe walking close to the protests because of the many examples of harassment. Apologies for the length of the reply but, as you can imagine, it's very disappointing to see these events minimized. Edit: Fireworks now being launched from a downtown street with many residential buildings close by https://twitter.com/berkley33/status/1490136109061484545 https://twitter.com/berkley33/status/1490136109061484545
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- throwaway894345 5y agoIf you want people to characterize something as a “protest” you’re going to need a lot more arson and looting. :)