5 ms·

>That's one of the things that's great about Apple's iAP and Apple being the handler of transactions. There's no tricks If you don't cancel a three day trial b

by mthoms 5y ago

>That's one of the things that's great about Apple's iAP and Apple being the handler of transactions. There's no tricks If you don't cancel a three day trial before the end of the second day, you are automatically billed. That's not a three day trial, that's a two day trial. A full 33% less than what you are explicitly promised[0]: >If you signed up for a free or discounted trial subscription and you don't want to renew it, cancel it at least 24 hours before the trial ends. >If you cancel during a free trial period, you might lose access to the subscription immediately. (Note: Although it says you "might" lose access immediately, in my experience you always loose access immediately) That means it's basically impossible to "trial" software for the period Apple advertises. No matter if the period is 3 days, 7 days or 3 months. It's a dark pattern, a dirty trick that is blatantly consumer hostile. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202039 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202039

mrtksn 5y ago
Yes it happens but you get the refund easily. You also get an e-mail before that happens.
- mthoms 5y ago
  Well you don't get the refund at all if you try to cancel less than 24 hours out. As technical users, you and I both know there is no technical reason for this. None. It's designed to catch users off guard, plain and simple. There's also this (emphasis mine): "3 months free. Apple TV+ is included for three months when you purchase an Apple device and redeem the offer within 90 days"[0]. What does included mean in this context to you? It means included in the purchase of the device. Right? As in, we are giving you a bonus incentive over and above what you would normally get. Sorry, no. If you cancel or decline autorenewal, nothing is in fact "included". It's a deception. It's conditionally included. Sure, it's all covered in the fine print, and everybody is doing it but come on. Apple is engaging in dirty trick after dirty trick. [0] https://www.apple.com/ca/apple-tv-plus/ https://www.apple.com/ca/apple-tv-plus/ For the record, I use Apple devices exclusively and happily pay for many services (including AppleTV+) but this stuff still needs to be called out.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    I got a refund and I know my friends who got theır refunds when they forget to cancel subscriptions in time. It's also well known policy of Apple to refund you right away. I'm having hard time understanding why are you so bitter about. I got 3 months of Apple TV+ and Apple Arcade trial with my purchase and Apple keeps reminding me to active it because the offer is valid within the 90 days of the decice activation. So what? Where's the deception? The cancellation policy is not in the fine print at all, it's right there next to the cancel button. Where exactly it needs to be? Just return the device if this doesn't work for you.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      >I got a refund and I know my friends who got theır refunds when they forget to cancel subscriptions in time. It's also well known policy of Apple to refund you right away. That doesn't excuse deceptive tricks used to prematurely start subscriptions. Many people don't bother chasing refunds. Anyways, you didn't address the issue: Apple says it's a three day trial, but the fine print says it's effectively a two day trial. Is that not an accurate assessment? >I'm having hard time understanding why are you so bitter about Sorry if I wasn't clear. The page I linked previously[0] says "3 months free. Apple TV+ is included for three months when you purchase an Apple device"[1] Now, let me ask. When referring to purchasing products or services what does the word "included" mean to you? If english was your second language, what would you take "included" to mean in this context? Maybe you'd look the world up in the dictionary? Let's see - Google says 'comprise or contain as part of a whole' and gives the example "the price includes dinner, bed, and breakfast". Merriam-Webster has a similar definition and gives this example: "The price of dinner includes dessert." Cambridge gives this example "The fee covers everything, babysitter included." And so on. See the problem? >The cancellation policy is not in the fine print at all, it's right there next to the cancel button. Where exactly it needs to be? Again, refer to the page I linked with the ad copy regarding AppleTV+. I'm not sure what page you're referring to(?) >Just return the device if this doesn't work for you. That's not the point. The topic was (generally) about dark patterns and misleading wording. I'm just giving two examples which counter the notion that Apple isn't also guilty of it. I'm not "bitter", and as I mentioned I generally love Apple's products and services. [0] https://www.apple.com/ca/apple-tv-plus/ https://www.apple.com/ca/apple-tv-plus/ [1] https://imgur.com/a/jwAJANz https://imgur.com/a/jwAJANz

by mthoms 5y ago

mrtksn 5y ago

Yes it happens but you get the refund easily. You also get an e-mail before that happens.

mthoms 5y ago
Well you don't get the refund at all if you try to cancel less than 24 hours out. As technical users, you and I both know there is no technical reason for this. None. It's designed to catch users off guard, plain and simple. There's also this (emphasis mine): "3 months free. Apple TV+ is included for three months when you purchase an Apple device and redeem the offer within 90 days"[0]. What does included mean in this context to you? It means included in the purchase of the device. Right? As in, we are giving you a bonus incentive over and above what you would normally get. Sorry, no. If you cancel or decline autorenewal, nothing is in fact "included". It's a deception. It's conditionally included. Sure, it's all covered in the fine print, and everybody is doing it but come on. Apple is engaging in dirty trick after dirty trick. [0] https://www.apple.com/ca/apple-tv-plus/ https://www.apple.com/ca/apple-tv-plus/ For the record, I use Apple devices exclusively and happily pay for many services (including AppleTV+) but this stuff still needs to be called out.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  I got a refund and I know my friends who got theır refunds when they forget to cancel subscriptions in time. It's also well known policy of Apple to refund you right away. I'm having hard time understanding why are you so bitter about. I got 3 months of Apple TV+ and Apple Arcade trial with my purchase and Apple keeps reminding me to active it because the offer is valid within the 90 days of the decice activation. So what? Where's the deception? The cancellation policy is not in the fine print at all, it's right there next to the cancel button. Where exactly it needs to be? Just return the device if this doesn't work for you.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    >I got a refund and I know my friends who got theır refunds when they forget to cancel subscriptions in time. It's also well known policy of Apple to refund you right away. That doesn't excuse deceptive tricks used to prematurely start subscriptions. Many people don't bother chasing refunds. Anyways, you didn't address the issue: Apple says it's a three day trial, but the fine print says it's effectively a two day trial. Is that not an accurate assessment? >I'm having hard time understanding why are you so bitter about Sorry if I wasn't clear. The page I linked previously[0] says "3 months free. Apple TV+ is included for three months when you purchase an Apple device"[1] Now, let me ask. When referring to purchasing products or services what does the word "included" mean to you? If english was your second language, what would you take "included" to mean in this context? Maybe you'd look the world up in the dictionary? Let's see - Google says 'comprise or contain as part of a whole' and gives the example "the price includes dinner, bed, and breakfast". Merriam-Webster has a similar definition and gives this example: "The price of dinner includes dessert." Cambridge gives this example "The fee covers everything, babysitter included." And so on. See the problem? >The cancellation policy is not in the fine print at all, it's right there next to the cancel button. Where exactly it needs to be? Again, refer to the page I linked with the ad copy regarding AppleTV+. I'm not sure what page you're referring to(?) >Just return the device if this doesn't work for you. That's not the point. The topic was (generally) about dark patterns and misleading wording. I'm just giving two examples which counter the notion that Apple isn't also guilty of it. I'm not "bitter", and as I mentioned I generally love Apple's products and services. [0] https://www.apple.com/ca/apple-tv-plus/ https://www.apple.com/ca/apple-tv-plus/ [1] https://imgur.com/a/jwAJANz https://imgur.com/a/jwAJANz