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We’ve been over this, that’s not how Apple CSAM scanning works at all. And if a country like China wanted to this, they could have just sent an order at any tim

We’ve been over this, that’s not how Apple CSAM scanning works at all. And if a country like China wanted to this, they could have just sent an order at any time.

smoldesu 5y ago
There's zero oversight into this system, nobody can say for sure what it looks like. Yes, they're only scanning iCloud-synced photos (for now), but as we've seen with iMessage exploitation, the average iPhone user doesn't care enough to lock down their device. This could very well be Apple testing the waters and trying to catch foolish criminals for a nice PR push when they decide they want to push it out to all devices. Once again though, there's no transparency here. We don't know what the list of hash collisions contains (and ostensibly won't ever know). You're welcome to use whatever device you want, but when people see black-boxes running on their system, I think they're perfectly right to be afraid. Much like how IME/PSP/T2 supposedly isn't used for surveillance, we have no way to verify that as users. We just have to take the word of these corporations and rely on blind faith that they won't abuse the MINIX system they control, or use DMA for anything evil.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Look, I don’t like scanning either, but I also don’t support all the FUD or false information spread about it. For example, I would like the option to have my images scanned client-side so I could get E2E without Congress having a moral panic. Fair trade. The fact that the scanning was optional seems to have been forgotten. Secondly, there’s also Apple’s anti-abuse strategy, which is that images only enter the database if they appear in databases from multiple governments. That’s a long way from mandatory client-side scanning for misinformation. Also, you cannot tell me an evil country would not just have ordered client-side scanning at any time in the last decade. It’s not some revolutionary new idea.

We’ve been over this, that’s not how Apple CSAM scanning works at all. And if a country like China wanted to this, they could have just sent an order at any time.

smoldesu 5y ago

There's zero oversight into this system, nobody can say for sure what it looks like. Yes, they're only scanning iCloud-synced photos (for now), but as we've seen with iMessage exploitation, the average iPhone user doesn't care enough to lock down their device. This could very well be Apple testing the waters and trying to catch foolish criminals for a nice PR push when they decide they want to push it out to all devices. Once again though, there's no transparency here. We don't know what the list of hash collisions contains (and ostensibly won't ever know). You're welcome to use whatever device you want, but when people see black-boxes running on their system, I think they're perfectly right to be afraid. Much like how IME/PSP/T2 supposedly isn't used for surveillance, we have no way to verify that as users. We just have to take the word of these corporations and rely on blind faith that they won't abuse the MINIX system they control, or use DMA for anything evil.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Look, I don’t like scanning either, but I also don’t support all the FUD or false information spread about it. For example, I would like the option to have my images scanned client-side so I could get E2E without Congress having a moral panic. Fair trade. The fact that the scanning was optional seems to have been forgotten. Secondly, there’s also Apple’s anti-abuse strategy, which is that images only enter the database if they appear in databases from multiple governments. That’s a long way from mandatory client-side scanning for misinformation. Also, you cannot tell me an evil country would not just have ordered client-side scanning at any time in the last decade. It’s not some revolutionary new idea.