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> The whole idea that one case of transmission proves the vaccines are ineffective at preventing transmission is silly. There are many cases. Mine is just the

by ls15 5y ago

> The whole idea that one case of transmission proves the vaccines are ineffective at preventing transmission is silly. There are many cases. Mine is just the one where I know by 100% that the vaccine was ineffective at preventing transmission. However, the CDC itself says that SARS-CoV-2 vaccines cannot prevent transmission anymore: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-... CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said that Covid-19 vaccines are no longer effective at preventing transmission of the virus. "...what they can’t do anymore is prevent transmission. So if you're going home to somebody who has not been vaccinated, somebody who can't get vaccinated... I would suggest you wear a mask in a public indoor setting," Misinformation? > Seems to be greater than 50% to me. Drops after that, but once again, it was always known that the effectiveness of the vaccine would be temporary. Guess which efficacy is smaller than the efficacy against symptomatic disease? I am not sure if it was always known that the efficacy was temporary. In the initial phase some scientists speculated about decades. Actually we can only now know how temporary they are after testing them on millions of people. > By saying who they allow to fly or not. You don't have to get vaccinated. United does not have to fly you. Sure anyone is free to avoid business, but if you want to put people on nationwide blocklists, then that may be illegal. >> I am sure we will see such questions being clarified in courts soon. > Will probably be very short court cases... Sure, if the pro-mandaters still don't have any good arguments and have to resort to ad hominems instead, I am sure it will be quick.

mpweiher 5y ago
> There are many cases. Again: this is 100% expected. Why is it surprising to you? Even if the vaccines were 90% effective at preventing transmission, which they aren't, you should expect millions of such cases when you have tens of millions taking the vaccines. And tens of millions of such cases when you have hundreds of millions of people taking the vaccines. You seem to be genuinely surprised (horrified?) by the fact that there are such cases. Why is this so? The CDC director's comments are not misinformation, but your misrepresentation of those comments could probably be classified as such, similar to the way Carlos Franco-Paredes (the Lancet letter writer) misrepresented the findings of the study: vaccines are no longer sufficient by themselves, so you need to do other things as well. Or as the authors of the study wrote: "Although our findings support Franco-Peredes’ conclusion that vaccination status should not replace social and physical public health mitigation practices, the above clarifications explain why our findings do not support his assertion that mandatory vaccination of health-care workers would not reduce nosocomial SARS-CoV-2 transmission." https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00761-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... In the same vein, the CDC recommends vaccination as the #1 measure to help "stop the spread", despite your misrepresentations of the director's statement: "Get Vaccinated and stay up to date on your COVID-19 vaccines - COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing you from getting sick. COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalizations, and death. - Getting vaccinated is the best way to slow the spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. CDC recommends that everyone who is eligible stay up to date on their COVID-19 vaccines, including people with weakened immune systems." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/prevention.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... Just in case you missed it: "Getting vaccinated is the best way to slow the spread of SARS-CoV-2,..."
- ls15 5y ago
  > You seem to be genuinely surprised (horrified?) by the fact that there are such cases. Why is this so? I am not horrified by the fact that vaccines do not prevent (and only slow) the spread of the virus, because as you said, that was always to be expected, but by the fact that people are trying to implement mandates on such a weak basis, while ignoring all the social fallout that comes with such mandates. > The CDC director's comments are not misinformation, but your misrepresentation of those comments could probably be classified as such "could probably be classified". So you acknowledge that you falsely accused me of spreading misinformation. Thank you for the discussion.
  - mpweiher 5y ago
    > [..] vaccines do not prevent (and only slow) the spread of the virus, because as you said, that was always to be expected They "slow" the spread of the virus by preventing infections. A breakthrough infection is not a slower infection, it is an infection that happens at the same speed (in fact, a little faster overall because it subsides more quickly). All the slowdown is via infections that do not happen, and were thus prevented. > So you acknowledge that you falsely accused me of spreading misinformation. Not in the least bit. You were definitely spreading misinformation earlier, all over this thread to be precise. Your misrepresentation of the CDC director's comments is a slightly less clear cut case, because you might reasonably claim to have just misunderstood her, but the other cases are pretty crystal.
    - ls15 5y ago
      > They "slow" the spread of the virus by preventing infections. A breakthrough infection is not a slower infection, it is an infection that happens at the same speed (in fact, a little faster overall because it subsides more quickly). All the slowdown is via infections that do not happen, and were thus prevented. Slowdown != prevention. You will just be exposed a bit later on average, but the spread still happens, just slower. SARS-CoV-2 vaccines prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2. Is a lie. SARS-CoV-2 vaccines do not prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2. Is a true statement. The one that you chose to attack for some reason that only you know. Feel free to move the goalpost again. Or, you know... just accept the truth.

by ls15 5y ago

mpweiher 5y ago

> There are many cases. Again: this is 100% expected. Why is it surprising to you? Even if the vaccines were 90% effective at preventing transmission, which they aren't, you should expect millions of such cases when you have tens of millions taking the vaccines. And tens of millions of such cases when you have hundreds of millions of people taking the vaccines. You seem to be genuinely surprised (horrified?) by the fact that there are such cases. Why is this so? The CDC director's comments are not misinformation, but your misrepresentation of those comments could probably be classified as such, similar to the way Carlos Franco-Paredes (the Lancet letter writer) misrepresented the findings of the study: vaccines are no longer sufficient by themselves, so you need to do other things as well. Or as the authors of the study wrote: "Although our findings support Franco-Peredes’ conclusion that vaccination status should not replace social and physical public health mitigation practices, the above clarifications explain why our findings do not support his assertion that mandatory vaccination of health-care workers would not reduce nosocomial SARS-CoV-2 transmission." https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00761-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... In the same vein, the CDC recommends vaccination as the #1 measure to help "stop the spread", despite your misrepresentations of the director's statement: "Get Vaccinated and stay up to date on your COVID-19 vaccines - COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing you from getting sick. COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalizations, and death. - Getting vaccinated is the best way to slow the spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. CDC recommends that everyone who is eligible stay up to date on their COVID-19 vaccines, including people with weakened immune systems." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/prevention.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... Just in case you missed it: "Getting vaccinated is the best way to slow the spread of SARS-CoV-2,..."

ls15 5y ago
> You seem to be genuinely surprised (horrified?) by the fact that there are such cases. Why is this so? I am not horrified by the fact that vaccines do not prevent (and only slow) the spread of the virus, because as you said, that was always to be expected, but by the fact that people are trying to implement mandates on such a weak basis, while ignoring all the social fallout that comes with such mandates. > The CDC director's comments are not misinformation, but your misrepresentation of those comments could probably be classified as such "could probably be classified". So you acknowledge that you falsely accused me of spreading misinformation. Thank you for the discussion.
- mpweiher 5y ago
  > [..] vaccines do not prevent (and only slow) the spread of the virus, because as you said, that was always to be expected They "slow" the spread of the virus by preventing infections. A breakthrough infection is not a slower infection, it is an infection that happens at the same speed (in fact, a little faster overall because it subsides more quickly). All the slowdown is via infections that do not happen, and were thus prevented. > So you acknowledge that you falsely accused me of spreading misinformation. Not in the least bit. You were definitely spreading misinformation earlier, all over this thread to be precise. Your misrepresentation of the CDC director's comments is a slightly less clear cut case, because you might reasonably claim to have just misunderstood her, but the other cases are pretty crystal.
  - ls15 5y ago
    > They "slow" the spread of the virus by preventing infections. A breakthrough infection is not a slower infection, it is an infection that happens at the same speed (in fact, a little faster overall because it subsides more quickly). All the slowdown is via infections that do not happen, and were thus prevented. Slowdown != prevention. You will just be exposed a bit later on average, but the spread still happens, just slower. SARS-CoV-2 vaccines prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2. Is a lie. SARS-CoV-2 vaccines do not prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2. Is a true statement. The one that you chose to attack for some reason that only you know. Feel free to move the goalpost again. Or, you know... just accept the truth.