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OT rant: > Ooh, I can scroll. That was not obvious at all. It is if you use a proper browser+OS combo. Why some designers thought it was a good idea to hide t

OT rant: > Ooh, I can scroll. That was not obvious at all. It is if you use a proper browser+OS combo. Why some designers thought it was a good idea to hide the scroll bar in their OS (which some browsers adopt to) is beyond me. It's also an annoyance as a user with a browser that display scrollbars. The amount of random scrollbars appearing because the devs never tested anything but Mac+Chrome is staggering.

lelandfe 5y ago
> the devs never tested anything but Mac+Chrome Which Android browsers show scrollbars?
- BenjiWiebe 5y ago
  Firefox does, briefly when you load a scrollable page. And then shows it again while scrolling, naturally.
  - tomrod 5y ago
    I suspect parent commenter is looking for more major browsers like Opera (4X market share [0]), Vivaldi, Brave, Chrome (leader), Safari, Samsung default, Android default, etc. Firefox isn't widely used anymore for mobile, especially with their recent user-hostile approaches of deprecating extension access, removing about:config, devs alledgedly flipping off users on twitter, and so forth. [0] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide/#monthly-202101-202201 https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile-table...
    - BMorearty 5y ago
      > devs alledgedly flipping off users on twitter What’s this a reference to?
    - jeroenhd 5y ago
      > Firefox isn't widely used anymore for mobile, especially with their recent user-hostile approaches of deprecating extension access, removing about:config, devs alledgedly flipping off users on twitter, and so forth. I don't get this sentiment. I understand that people are upset at Mozilla, so am I. But why would you then decide to switch to a browser that makes the exact same mistakes without any extensions whatsoever? That said, websites like Statcounter will always show a larger user base on Firefox because of anti tracking measures present and enabled by default in Firefox. It's definitely not what it used to be, but these statistics can't be relied upon ever since ad blocking first appeared on the internet.
      - tomrod 5y ago
        > why would you then decide to switch to a browser that makes the exact same mistakes without any extensions whatsoever Adblocking among the browsers that are more user-focused. I personally use Vivaldi, which is from the same devs that created Opera before the company was sold off.
- matsemann 5y ago
  Difference is a mobile view is often designed with that in mind, so it works across the board. On desktop, I've had random horizontal scrollbars even on big sites like GitHub. Non-functional as the content had enough space, but still there, because no one bothered to test. I do think hiding it on mobile devices is bad as well, though. Leads to exactly the issue in the twitter thread, with more content not being noticed. Found an old discussion on it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293421 Working link: http://web.archive.org/web/20210226184710/https://svenkadak.com/blog/scrollbar-blindness http://web.archive.org/web/20210226184710/https://svenkadak....
- azangru 5y ago
  > Which Android browsers show scrollbars? How many people develop web sites on Android? Meanwhile, there are a lot of web developers who use Mac as their dev machine; and the majority of them would never check how the website looks on Windows or Linux.
azangru 5y ago
There's a setting on MacOS: System preferences > General > Show scroll bars > Always; but neither developers nor end users seem to enable it. Plus — and this is a pet peeve of mine — there's a growing number of developers who would use the Tailwind CSS library and apply its "w-screen" class to their elements. The w-screen class sets element width to 100vw, which does not take into account the width of the vertical scrollbar. So the moment the page content gets taller than viewport height and a vertical scrollbar appears, the 100vw width of an element exceeds the available width of the page, and causes a horizontal scrollbar to appear as well. Argh!
- lelandfe 5y ago
  At my last company, we enabled this by default for new company macOS laptops. Helped a lot.
- lioeters 5y ago
  Found a demonstration of 100vw with vertical scrollbar. Suggested solution is to use width:100%. https://sbx.webflow.io/100vw-scrollbars https://sbx.webflow.io/100vw-scrollbars
  - azangru 5y ago
    > Suggested solution is to use width:100%. Which, for a block element inside a block container, is the default anyway.

lelandfe 5y ago

> the devs never tested anything but Mac+Chrome Which Android browsers show scrollbars?

BenjiWiebe 5y ago
Firefox does, briefly when you load a scrollable page. And then shows it again while scrolling, naturally.
- tomrod 5y ago
  I suspect parent commenter is looking for more major browsers like Opera (4X market share [0]), Vivaldi, Brave, Chrome (leader), Safari, Samsung default, Android default, etc. Firefox isn't widely used anymore for mobile, especially with their recent user-hostile approaches of deprecating extension access, removing about:config, devs alledgedly flipping off users on twitter, and so forth. [0] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide/#monthly-202101-202201 https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile-table...
  - BMorearty 5y ago
    > devs alledgedly flipping off users on twitter What’s this a reference to?
  - jeroenhd 5y ago
    > Firefox isn't widely used anymore for mobile, especially with their recent user-hostile approaches of deprecating extension access, removing about:config, devs alledgedly flipping off users on twitter, and so forth. I don't get this sentiment. I understand that people are upset at Mozilla, so am I. But why would you then decide to switch to a browser that makes the exact same mistakes without any extensions whatsoever? That said, websites like Statcounter will always show a larger user base on Firefox because of anti tracking measures present and enabled by default in Firefox. It's definitely not what it used to be, but these statistics can't be relied upon ever since ad blocking first appeared on the internet.
    - tomrod 5y ago
      > why would you then decide to switch to a browser that makes the exact same mistakes without any extensions whatsoever Adblocking among the browsers that are more user-focused. I personally use Vivaldi, which is from the same devs that created Opera before the company was sold off.
matsemann 5y ago
Difference is a mobile view is often designed with that in mind, so it works across the board. On desktop, I've had random horizontal scrollbars even on big sites like GitHub. Non-functional as the content had enough space, but still there, because no one bothered to test. I do think hiding it on mobile devices is bad as well, though. Leads to exactly the issue in the twitter thread, with more content not being noticed. Found an old discussion on it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293421 Working link: http://web.archive.org/web/20210226184710/https://svenkadak.com/blog/scrollbar-blindness http://web.archive.org/web/20210226184710/https://svenkadak....
azangru 5y ago
> Which Android browsers show scrollbars? How many people develop web sites on Android? Meanwhile, there are a lot of web developers who use Mac as their dev machine; and the majority of them would never check how the website looks on Windows or Linux.

azangru 5y ago

There's a setting on MacOS: System preferences > General > Show scroll bars > Always; but neither developers nor end users seem to enable it. Plus — and this is a pet peeve of mine — there's a growing number of developers who would use the Tailwind CSS library and apply its "w-screen" class to their elements. The w-screen class sets element width to 100vw, which does not take into account the width of the vertical scrollbar. So the moment the page content gets taller than viewport height and a vertical scrollbar appears, the 100vw width of an element exceeds the available width of the page, and causes a horizontal scrollbar to appear as well. Argh!

lelandfe 5y ago
At my last company, we enabled this by default for new company macOS laptops. Helped a lot.
lioeters 5y ago
Found a demonstration of 100vw with vertical scrollbar. Suggested solution is to use width:100%. https://sbx.webflow.io/100vw-scrollbars https://sbx.webflow.io/100vw-scrollbars
- azangru 5y ago
  > Suggested solution is to use width:100%. Which, for a block element inside a block container, is the default anyway.