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" Compare that with the Netherlands, where 27% of the country commutes by bike. The difference is infrastructure." Well, infrastructure is certainly one

" Compare that with the Netherlands, where 27% of the country commutes by bike. The difference is infrastructure." Well, infrastructure is certainly one big difference, but it's not _the_ difference. The Netherlands is quite flat. Some parts of the US (for example Austin, Texas where I live) is rather hilly in spots. Biking is getting more widely used anyway, but it's not irrelevant that it is much easier to bike on flat terrain. I'm also surprised to see absolutely no mention of electric scooters (Bird, Lime, etc.). Those unwilling to bike could still add to the critical mass needed for support of infrastructure, if bikes and scooters share that infrastructure. If they're arguing that the other should not be allowed in their lanes, however, I think neither is numerous enough to get support.

Muromec 5y ago
>Well, infrastructure is certainly one big difference, but it's not _the_ difference. The Netherlands is quite flat Ground in the Netherlands is flat, but bike paths also go over bridges. And what the Netherlands also has is the North Sea, with its winds, which turn cycling on nicely-paved flat terrain into rather serious physical exercise. Sometimes I wish I wasn't that cheap and got pedal-assist as an option.
- alamortsubite 5y ago
  People who argue against bike infrastructure in the U.S. are always quick to bring up the lack of hills in the Netherlands, but they never make the connection with the strong winds there (doubly ironic, given the romantic affinity we all have for Dutch windmills). It's frustrating, but I think e-bikes will finally be the death knell for this meme. (I've also heard that some infrastructure in NL actually takes wind into account by providing windbreaks for cyclists.)
- consp 5y ago
  The Dutch Headwind Cycling Championship is tomorrow for example (expected 7 to 8bft so it will be tough). There is a good cycle path where they will hold it and people regularly cycle there, it's almost never below 4bft there. Also there are plenty of hilly parts of the Netherlands which have the same cycle infrastructure and usage. The fairy tale of "but it's flat" has been around for a while and used plenty of times by opponents without actually looking into it.
alamortsubite 5y ago
I wouldn't commute by bike over the Filbert Street Steps, that's true. But I don't think the hilly argument against cycle infrastructure is a great one. E-bikes, in particular, pretty much nullify the issue, and efficient cycle routes probably wouldn't traverse hills in many cities, anyway. SF is an extreme example, but in most places roads tend follow the terrain rather than try to conquer it.
noelsusman 5y ago
Also does it just not get hot there? If I biked to work I would be a disgusting mess when I showed up for 8 months out of the year.
- rossdavidh 5y ago
  Maybe not 8 months out of the year, but certainly 6 months, one is going to be a sweaty mess upon arrival. On the other hand, rarely do we get snow, so perhaps that cancels out.

Muromec 5y ago

>Well, infrastructure is certainly one big difference, but it's not _the_ difference. The Netherlands is quite flat Ground in the Netherlands is flat, but bike paths also go over bridges. And what the Netherlands also has is the North Sea, with its winds, which turn cycling on nicely-paved flat terrain into rather serious physical exercise. Sometimes I wish I wasn't that cheap and got pedal-assist as an option.

alamortsubite 5y ago
People who argue against bike infrastructure in the U.S. are always quick to bring up the lack of hills in the Netherlands, but they never make the connection with the strong winds there (doubly ironic, given the romantic affinity we all have for Dutch windmills). It's frustrating, but I think e-bikes will finally be the death knell for this meme. (I've also heard that some infrastructure in NL actually takes wind into account by providing windbreaks for cyclists.)
consp 5y ago
The Dutch Headwind Cycling Championship is tomorrow for example (expected 7 to 8bft so it will be tough). There is a good cycle path where they will hold it and people regularly cycle there, it's almost never below 4bft there. Also there are plenty of hilly parts of the Netherlands which have the same cycle infrastructure and usage. The fairy tale of "but it's flat" has been around for a while and used plenty of times by opponents without actually looking into it.

alamortsubite 5y ago

I wouldn't commute by bike over the Filbert Street Steps, that's true. But I don't think the hilly argument against cycle infrastructure is a great one. E-bikes, in particular, pretty much nullify the issue, and efficient cycle routes probably wouldn't traverse hills in many cities, anyway. SF is an extreme example, but in most places roads tend follow the terrain rather than try to conquer it.

noelsusman 5y ago

Also does it just not get hot there? If I biked to work I would be a disgusting mess when I showed up for 8 months out of the year.

rossdavidh 5y ago
Maybe not 8 months out of the year, but certainly 6 months, one is going to be a sweaty mess upon arrival. On the other hand, rarely do we get snow, so perhaps that cancels out.