5 ms·

Statistics show otherwise. But what do I know, I'm not a guy trained to Trust the Scientific Authority, just a lowly pleb with a degree who does math and stati

Statistics show otherwise. But what do I know, I'm not a guy trained to Trust the Scientific Authority, just a lowly pleb with a degree who does math and statistics for a living.

khazhoux 5y ago
Hospital ICU COVID patients are almost entirely the unvaccinated. This is not in disupte except by conspiracists. What’s the alternative statistical explanation of why unvaxxed are ~90% of covid ICU?
- rosndo 5y ago
  So we get back to the original point, how do these people ruin flights?
  - ls15 5y ago
    By severe ideological mismatch
    - SergeAx 5y ago
      You mean, it is unpleasant to fly side by side with people with another ideology? So society have to strip them of their rights to move freely?
      - ls15 5y ago
        Not for me, but for some people it seems like this is the case.
      - alpaca128 5y ago
        If that ideology indicates the person is not interested in decreasing safety risks then I'd kinda prefer them to not sit in the same plane. > strip them of their rights to move freely? Is access to airplanes necessary for that right? I don't think so, the existence of a no-fly list wouldn't be consistent with that either.
        rosndo 5y ago
        It is rather impractical to travel extended distances without access to airplanes, seems like an unreasonable burden.
        DonHopkins 5y ago
        [flagged]
        ls15 5y ago
        > What's with all the whiney low-effort replies, dude? You're going to have to put a hell of a lot more effort and evidence into your replies, since you've chosen to put up an ideological defense and carry the water for Anti-Vax Science Deniers. So what was your scientific argument for mandating vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 in the age of the Omicron variant again?
        rosndo 5y ago
        [flagged]
        DonHopkins 5y ago
        dang 5y ago
        Please stop breaking the site guidelines Don. You've been relapsing and we need that not to happen.
        PedroBatista 5y ago
        I’m all for vaccines and masks but your ideas on how to deal with dissidence are terrifying. I just hope in comes from a place of ignorance and heat of the moment.
        alpaca128 5y ago
  - khazhoux 5y ago
    The comment above me, which I was replying to, is not about flights but is instead claiming that the vaccine does not help prevent hospitalization, which I pointed out is patently false.
- aksss 5y ago
  You’re arguing a strawman by responding to a statement about transmission with a conversation about hospitalization.
  - khazhoux 5y ago
    No. I'm quite directly responding to the comment above mine, which is about hospitalization. user consp said: "[the vaccine] massively prevents hospitalization and severe side effects, including death" user otabdeveloper4 replied: "Statistics show otherwise. [I do] math and statistics for a living" To which I replied that severe COVID hospitalizations (i.e. ICU) are dominated by unvaxxed.
- otabdeveloper4 5y ago
  Explain first why there are no unvaxxed ICU hospitalzations in unvaxxed Africa. (Oh wait, you will suddenly remember about proper sampling and bias when arguing against a position you find ideologically abhorrent. Neat.)
  - khazhoux 5y ago
    Sarcastic tone isn't helpful. I am asking what is the alternative explanation why the US covid ICU hospitalizations are dominated (upwards of 90%) by unvaccinated people. If the vaccine were ineffective against hospitalization --as you claimed-- wouldn't the ICU unvaxxed percentage be 50%? I'm legitimately interested to hear if there's an alternative explanation (besides "All the hospitals in the US are lying").
    - otabdeveloper4 5y ago
      Sample and data collection bias. The people doing the research had a foregone conclusion - "vaccines are crucial in our anti-Covid effort" - and then went out of their way to massage the data to prove their point. Other countries had different foregone conclusions, and demonstrate entirely different results.
- native_samples 5y ago
  They are not. "This is not in disupte except by conspiracists" US data simply doesn't match figures reported by other comparable countries around the world and is likely to be distorted in some way. For example, here's a story from the UK in October/November last year saying that the majority of Covid ICU patients were vaccinated. https://dailysceptic.org/2021/12/11/majority-of-covid-icu-patients-in-october-and-november-were-vaccinated/ https://dailysceptic.org/2021/12/11/majority-of-covid-icu-pa... That's the British government's own data which is of decent quality (mostly). US data is virtually uninterpretable in comparison.
  - mjrpes 5y ago
    US hospitals in areas with low vaccination rates, compared to a much higher overall rate in Britain, explains this difference. Your stat is misleading, because ICU rates are much lower overall than would be the case if there was no vaccine at all. Finally, your link is outdated. Unvaccinated are back to the majority of ICU admissions in Britain, if you look at the most recent source data.
    - native_samples 5y ago
      But we're not debating whether the stat is misleading or not - I think pretty much every stat about COVID vaccines is misleading in various different subtle ways. The original claim in dispute was a factual statement about particular numbers along with a claim that only "conspiracists" could disagree this. But the claim has been wrong in the UK in the recent past, and this is not a matter of "conspiracies" but of published fact, therefore the claim is wrong and people should stop making it. Re: out of date. I'll take your word for it on the UK data now, but it hardly matters. Here's one from today showing the same thing for Israel: https://dailysceptic.org/2022/02/05/80-of-serious-covid-cases-are-fully-vaccinated-israel-hospital-director/ https://dailysceptic.org/2022/02/05/80-of-serious-covid-case... "Professor Yaakov Jerris, the Director of a coronavirus ward in an Israeli hospital, has said between 70% and 80% of the serious cases in his hospital are vaccinated and that the vaccine has “no significance regarding severe illness”. Israel National News has the story."
- rhbyc 5y ago
  This is incorrect. Prof. Yaakov Jerris, who actually works in a corona ward, has these observations: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674 https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674 Are Israeli hospitals really overloaded with unvaccinated COVID patients? According to Prof. Yaakov Jerris, director of Ichilov Hospital’s coronavirus ward, the situation is completely opposite. “Right now, most of our severe cases are vaccinated,” Jerris told Channel 13 News. “They had at least three injections. Between seventy and eighty percent of the serious cases are vaccinated. So, the vaccine has no significance regarding severe illness, which is why just twenty to twenty-five percent of our patients are unvaccinated.”
mikevm 5y ago

Statistics show otherwise. But what do I know, I'm not a guy trained to Trust the Scientific Authority, just a lowly pleb with a degree who does math and statistics for a living.

khazhoux 5y ago

Hospital ICU COVID patients are almost entirely the unvaccinated. This is not in disupte except by conspiracists. What’s the alternative statistical explanation of why unvaxxed are ~90% of covid ICU?

rosndo 5y ago
So we get back to the original point, how do these people ruin flights?
- ls15 5y ago
  By severe ideological mismatch
  - SergeAx 5y ago
    You mean, it is unpleasant to fly side by side with people with another ideology? So society have to strip them of their rights to move freely?
    - ls15 5y ago
      Not for me, but for some people it seems like this is the case.
    - alpaca128 5y ago
      If that ideology indicates the person is not interested in decreasing safety risks then I'd kinda prefer them to not sit in the same plane. > strip them of their rights to move freely? Is access to airplanes necessary for that right? I don't think so, the existence of a no-fly list wouldn't be consistent with that either.
      - rosndo 5y ago
        It is rather impractical to travel extended distances without access to airplanes, seems like an unreasonable burden.
        DonHopkins 5y ago
        [flagged]
        ls15 5y ago
        > What's with all the whiney low-effort replies, dude? You're going to have to put a hell of a lot more effort and evidence into your replies, since you've chosen to put up an ideological defense and carry the water for Anti-Vax Science Deniers. So what was your scientific argument for mandating vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 in the age of the Omicron variant again?
        rosndo 5y ago
        [flagged]
        DonHopkins 5y ago
        dang 5y ago
        Please stop breaking the site guidelines Don. You've been relapsing and we need that not to happen.
      - PedroBatista 5y ago
        I’m all for vaccines and masks but your ideas on how to deal with dissidence are terrifying. I just hope in comes from a place of ignorance and heat of the moment.
        alpaca128 5y ago
- khazhoux 5y ago
  The comment above me, which I was replying to, is not about flights but is instead claiming that the vaccine does not help prevent hospitalization, which I pointed out is patently false.
aksss 5y ago
You’re arguing a strawman by responding to a statement about transmission with a conversation about hospitalization.
- khazhoux 5y ago
  No. I'm quite directly responding to the comment above mine, which is about hospitalization. user consp said: "[the vaccine] massively prevents hospitalization and severe side effects, including death" user otabdeveloper4 replied: "Statistics show otherwise. [I do] math and statistics for a living" To which I replied that severe COVID hospitalizations (i.e. ICU) are dominated by unvaxxed.
otabdeveloper4 5y ago
Explain first why there are no unvaxxed ICU hospitalzations in unvaxxed Africa. (Oh wait, you will suddenly remember about proper sampling and bias when arguing against a position you find ideologically abhorrent. Neat.)
- khazhoux 5y ago
  Sarcastic tone isn't helpful. I am asking what is the alternative explanation why the US covid ICU hospitalizations are dominated (upwards of 90%) by unvaccinated people. If the vaccine were ineffective against hospitalization --as you claimed-- wouldn't the ICU unvaxxed percentage be 50%? I'm legitimately interested to hear if there's an alternative explanation (besides "All the hospitals in the US are lying").
  - otabdeveloper4 5y ago
    Sample and data collection bias. The people doing the research had a foregone conclusion - "vaccines are crucial in our anti-Covid effort" - and then went out of their way to massage the data to prove their point. Other countries had different foregone conclusions, and demonstrate entirely different results.
native_samples 5y ago
They are not. "This is not in disupte except by conspiracists" US data simply doesn't match figures reported by other comparable countries around the world and is likely to be distorted in some way. For example, here's a story from the UK in October/November last year saying that the majority of Covid ICU patients were vaccinated. https://dailysceptic.org/2021/12/11/majority-of-covid-icu-patients-in-october-and-november-were-vaccinated/ https://dailysceptic.org/2021/12/11/majority-of-covid-icu-pa... That's the British government's own data which is of decent quality (mostly). US data is virtually uninterpretable in comparison.
- mjrpes 5y ago
  US hospitals in areas with low vaccination rates, compared to a much higher overall rate in Britain, explains this difference. Your stat is misleading, because ICU rates are much lower overall than would be the case if there was no vaccine at all. Finally, your link is outdated. Unvaccinated are back to the majority of ICU admissions in Britain, if you look at the most recent source data.
  - native_samples 5y ago
    But we're not debating whether the stat is misleading or not - I think pretty much every stat about COVID vaccines is misleading in various different subtle ways. The original claim in dispute was a factual statement about particular numbers along with a claim that only "conspiracists" could disagree this. But the claim has been wrong in the UK in the recent past, and this is not a matter of "conspiracies" but of published fact, therefore the claim is wrong and people should stop making it. Re: out of date. I'll take your word for it on the UK data now, but it hardly matters. Here's one from today showing the same thing for Israel: https://dailysceptic.org/2022/02/05/80-of-serious-covid-cases-are-fully-vaccinated-israel-hospital-director/ https://dailysceptic.org/2022/02/05/80-of-serious-covid-case... "Professor Yaakov Jerris, the Director of a coronavirus ward in an Israeli hospital, has said between 70% and 80% of the serious cases in his hospital are vaccinated and that the vaccine has “no significance regarding severe illness”. Israel National News has the story."
rhbyc 5y ago
This is incorrect. Prof. Yaakov Jerris, who actually works in a corona ward, has these observations: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674 https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674 Are Israeli hospitals really overloaded with unvaccinated COVID patients? According to Prof. Yaakov Jerris, director of Ichilov Hospital’s coronavirus ward, the situation is completely opposite. “Right now, most of our severe cases are vaccinated,” Jerris told Channel 13 News. “They had at least three injections. Between seventy and eighty percent of the serious cases are vaccinated. So, the vaccine has no significance regarding severe illness, which is why just twenty to twenty-five percent of our patients are unvaccinated.”

mikevm 5y ago