4 ms·

Who the hell has the authority to issue “orders” to a civilian? What is this, medieval Europe? To make it worse, he paid to be there. If they didn’t want him i

Who the hell has the authority to issue “orders” to a civilian? What is this, medieval Europe? To make it worse, he paid to be there. If they didn’t want him in the seat, they shouldn’t have sold him a ticket. He already paid, already received the ticket, and already had his ass in the seat.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
manigandham 5y ago
Airport security and the police are explicitly granted with that authority and can issue those orders. Why would you call this medieval?
Bud 5y ago
You seem deeply confused. A lot of people have the right to issue orders to a civilian under various circumstances.
- hattori_hanzo 5y ago
  I'm deeply confused aswell. Do you mind elaborating on who that is?
- FredPret 5y ago
  But not under these circumstances. Was that not clear? If you’re a model of clarity, I’d rather be confused.
  - Bud 5y ago
    You're still wrong. Go check federal law on airline passengers. Don't worry, I'll wait. And no, btw, pretending to be confused isn't convincing.
nightski 5y ago
At least in the U.S. anyone is allowed to order others off their own property...
- sk5t 5y ago
  Do contracts mean nothing to you?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - midasuni 5y ago
    The contract says they can order you off. The entire argument revolves around invalidating the contract due to other laws.
- ttybird2 5y ago
  This is not technically correct. I am pretty sure that you are not allowed to immediately order someone off your property if they have been living there for a while.
kube-system 5y ago
- Ansil849 5y ago
  > The terms of purchasing the ticket includes your agreement that you might get bumped. 'Bumping' is the colloquial term for 'involuntary denied boarding'. Bumping does not apply in this case, because the passenger in question was already boarded, and therefore could not be denied his seat, as he was not acting abusively. But don't take my word for it, this is directly from the US Department of Transportation: > Can airlines involuntarily bump me after I have boarded the flight? > Generally, no. If you have met the following conditions, airlines are not allowed to deny you permission to board, or remove you from the flight if you have already boarded the flight: > You have checked-in for your flight before the check-in deadline set by the airlines; and > A gate agent has accepted your paper boarding pass or electronically scanned your boarding pass and let you know that you may proceed to board. > However, airlines may deny boarding or remove you from a flight even after accepting your boarding pass and informing you that you may proceed to board if the denial or removal is due to a safety, security, or health risk, or due to a behavior that is considered obscene, disruptive, or otherwise unlawful. https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/bumping-oversales https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...
  - kube-system 5y ago
    My mistake, I forgot that detail. My other two points, however, are still valid, even if the airlines request broke regulations.
    - Ansil849 5y ago
      > My other two points, however, are still valid. No, if you read the DOT website I linked to, you'll see your second point is not valid either. The DOT explicitly states airlines are not allowed to deny you permission to board, or remove you from the flight if.... If you have already boarded the plan, or had your ticket scanned, and are not being unruly, airlines are literally not allowed to deplane you.
kortilla 5y ago
He paid for a seat reservation, not the plane. You have no right to disobey orders in the same way you don’t have a right to fly the plane. There is no ambiguity here.
- ratww 5y ago
  > He paid for a seat reservation, not the plane. He paid for the flight, was checked in, allowed into the plane and didn't provide any reason himself for being thrown out. The people who escalated the situation were the airline staff and airport staff. Huge difference.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Who the hell has the authority to issue “orders” to a civilian? The property owner of the property he is occupying against the owner’s wishes. > What is this, medieval Europe? Capitalism isn't the same thing as feudalism, though both give preeminence to property rights (in capitalism, the important ones are more likely to be marketable rather than fixed to predefined systems of inheritance.)
midasuni 5y ago
Jurisdictions can issue evacuation orders and curfews. Police can in many cases remove you for trespassing. The United incident was a total disaster for United, they were incompetent and doubled down on that incompetence because of policies driven by their bottom line. The “police” that removed the trespasser were no trained and were also incompetent. None of that changes the fact that if the captain of the airline thinks it’s a safety problem he can remove the passenger.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

manigandham 5y ago

Airport security and the police are explicitly granted with that authority and can issue those orders. Why would you call this medieval?

Bud 5y ago

You seem deeply confused. A lot of people have the right to issue orders to a civilian under various circumstances.

hattori_hanzo 5y ago
I'm deeply confused aswell. Do you mind elaborating on who that is?
FredPret 5y ago
But not under these circumstances. Was that not clear? If you’re a model of clarity, I’d rather be confused.
- Bud 5y ago
  You're still wrong. Go check federal law on airline passengers. Don't worry, I'll wait. And no, btw, pretending to be confused isn't convincing.

nightski 5y ago

At least in the U.S. anyone is allowed to order others off their own property...

sk5t 5y ago
Do contracts mean nothing to you?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- midasuni 5y ago
  The contract says they can order you off. The entire argument revolves around invalidating the contract due to other laws.
ttybird2 5y ago
This is not technically correct. I am pretty sure that you are not allowed to immediately order someone off your property if they have been living there for a while.

kube-system 5y ago

Ansil849 5y ago
> The terms of purchasing the ticket includes your agreement that you might get bumped. 'Bumping' is the colloquial term for 'involuntary denied boarding'. Bumping does not apply in this case, because the passenger in question was already boarded, and therefore could not be denied his seat, as he was not acting abusively. But don't take my word for it, this is directly from the US Department of Transportation: > Can airlines involuntarily bump me after I have boarded the flight? > Generally, no. If you have met the following conditions, airlines are not allowed to deny you permission to board, or remove you from the flight if you have already boarded the flight: > You have checked-in for your flight before the check-in deadline set by the airlines; and > A gate agent has accepted your paper boarding pass or electronically scanned your boarding pass and let you know that you may proceed to board. > However, airlines may deny boarding or remove you from a flight even after accepting your boarding pass and informing you that you may proceed to board if the denial or removal is due to a safety, security, or health risk, or due to a behavior that is considered obscene, disruptive, or otherwise unlawful. https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/bumping-oversales https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...
- kube-system 5y ago
  My mistake, I forgot that detail. My other two points, however, are still valid, even if the airlines request broke regulations.
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    > My other two points, however, are still valid. No, if you read the DOT website I linked to, you'll see your second point is not valid either. The DOT explicitly states airlines are not allowed to deny you permission to board, or remove you from the flight if.... If you have already boarded the plan, or had your ticket scanned, and are not being unruly, airlines are literally not allowed to deplane you.

kortilla 5y ago

He paid for a seat reservation, not the plane. You have no right to disobey orders in the same way you don’t have a right to fly the plane. There is no ambiguity here.

ratww 5y ago
> He paid for a seat reservation, not the plane. He paid for the flight, was checked in, allowed into the plane and didn't provide any reason himself for being thrown out. The people who escalated the situation were the airline staff and airport staff. Huge difference.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Who the hell has the authority to issue “orders” to a civilian? The property owner of the property he is occupying against the owner’s wishes. > What is this, medieval Europe? Capitalism isn't the same thing as feudalism, though both give preeminence to property rights (in capitalism, the important ones are more likely to be marketable rather than fixed to predefined systems of inheritance.)

midasuni 5y ago

Jurisdictions can issue evacuation orders and curfews. Police can in many cases remove you for trespassing. The United incident was a total disaster for United, they were incompetent and doubled down on that incompetence because of policies driven by their bottom line. The “police” that removed the trespasser were no trained and were also incompetent. None of that changes the fact that if the captain of the airline thinks it’s a safety problem he can remove the passenger.