3 ms·

I'd much prefer these passengers be put on the official no fly list, if only to force the law suit that will eventually give EVERYONE on the list information on

I'd much prefer these passengers be put on the official no fly list, if only to force the law suit that will eventually give EVERYONE on the list information on why they are on it, for how long, and a clear process for challenging being incorrectly placed on the list. Right now if the government thinks you might have maybe been associated with any definition of terrorism you're banned from flying with basically no recourse. The assholes punching people and grabbing butts atleast have clearly committed crimes and shown themselves to be a danger to others in the sky.

kelnos 5y ago
Why do you think this would force that lawsuit that would make things more transparent? There are already thousands of people on the no-fly list. I don't think the unruly passengers are in any way special such that they'd have more success challenging this sort of thing.
- Larrikin 5y ago
  The general American public is sadly more willing to hear the plights of people when they aren't brown, foreigners, or Muslim. The No Fly list is very opaque but the author's of articles I've read where it wasn't a mistaken identity, but for a bull shit reason all tend to be at least one of those three.
whatshisface 5y ago
>information on why they are on it, for how long, and a clear process for challenging being incorrectly placed on the list. If the answers are anything other than "they were convicted in a court of law by a jury of their peers," "for as long as the judge sentenced them to," and "by appealing to a higher court," then the only thing transparent about the list would be its transparent illegitimacy. In fact, if people could see the reason they were on it, it would seem less legitimate, because "agent #78 thought you belonged on it and his boss signed off," would serve only to highlight what the justice system abdicated when it allowed it to be set up.
javajosh 5y ago
>I'd much prefer these passengers be put on the official no fly list, if only to force the law suit that will eventually give EVERYONE on the list information... While I appreciate the thinking (sometimes falsely attributed to Lincoln: "The best way to fix a bad law is to enforce it perfectly"), it's a bad idea to make it easier to add people to the current no-fly list in the hopes that this will "poison the well" so-to-speak. If your idea were tried, it would result in a measurably worse world for a generation, perhaps indefinitely. The no-fly list is a great example of a "boring tyranny", a type of tyranny that politicians don't credit for confronting, and so don't even get talked about. So you'll make this change, and then for 20 or 30 years you'll hear the same exact debates about abortion and gun rights, and the worse world you made will continue in the shadows. So, no, please do not do this.

kelnos 5y ago

Why do you think this would force that lawsuit that would make things more transparent? There are already thousands of people on the no-fly list. I don't think the unruly passengers are in any way special such that they'd have more success challenging this sort of thing.

Larrikin 5y ago
The general American public is sadly more willing to hear the plights of people when they aren't brown, foreigners, or Muslim. The No Fly list is very opaque but the author's of articles I've read where it wasn't a mistaken identity, but for a bull shit reason all tend to be at least one of those three.

whatshisface 5y ago

>information on why they are on it, for how long, and a clear process for challenging being incorrectly placed on the list. If the answers are anything other than "they were convicted in a court of law by a jury of their peers," "for as long as the judge sentenced them to," and "by appealing to a higher court," then the only thing transparent about the list would be its transparent illegitimacy. In fact, if people could see the reason they were on it, it would seem less legitimate, because "agent #78 thought you belonged on it and his boss signed off," would serve only to highlight what the justice system abdicated when it allowed it to be set up.

javajosh 5y ago

>I'd much prefer these passengers be put on the official no fly list, if only to force the law suit that will eventually give EVERYONE on the list information... While I appreciate the thinking (sometimes falsely attributed to Lincoln: "The best way to fix a bad law is to enforce it perfectly"), it's a bad idea to make it easier to add people to the current no-fly list in the hopes that this will "poison the well" so-to-speak. If your idea were tried, it would result in a measurably worse world for a generation, perhaps indefinitely. The no-fly list is a great example of a "boring tyranny", a type of tyranny that politicians don't credit for confronting, and so don't even get talked about. So you'll make this change, and then for 20 or 30 years you'll hear the same exact debates about abortion and gun rights, and the worse world you made will continue in the shadows. So, no, please do not do this.