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United was in the wrong, and they ultimately settled. > What about putting unruly airport staff on a similar list? Just don't fly United.

kelnos 5y ago
Settling doesn't mean they were in the wrong. It just means they felt the price of settling was cheaper than the price of the bad publicity generated by dragging out a legal fight. (United employees didn't physically touch him; that was airport security.)
- opo 5y ago
  >Settling doesn't mean they were in the wrong. I'll take the CEO's word on this one: >...Munoz issued an additional statement, apologizing and promising that such an incident would never again occur on a United aircraft. Yes, the airlines reserve the right to not let you board due to their overbooking. In the case of the United passenger (and many others that came to light after this assault) the person had already boarded. At that point, the reasons for not transporting (Rule 21) are spelled out and they don't include reasons like ("we decided to use the seat for our employee" or "a gold member wants the seat"), etc. The idea of involuntary bumping itself should probably be viewed as regulatory capture. We don't allow that in other industries. There is nothing inherently wrong with the idea of overbooking as it allows for more efficient use of planes. Whether that results in lower ticket prices or leads to more profit for the airline will actually vary, but it is ultimately immaterial - making more productive use of airplanes is good for everybody. The issue is involuntary bumping and people treating this as somehow acceptable. If the airlines screw up and have too many passengers for too few seats, it is up to them to solve the problem through voluntary means and not assault. Just about everyone has a price they would be willing to give up their seat and it will be different than the person next to them. If you are traveling on a last minute ticket to visit a family member in the hospital, you might not be willing to delay your travel for any amount of money. If you are traveling on a vacation, the amount might be relatively little. Also some passengers will value some things more than others - offering a year of platinum level membership might entice a business traveller, offering money might entice a college student, upgrades to first class might entice others, etc.
mise_en_place 5y ago
Commercial domestic airlines in the US are effectively nationalized. The first time I flew AirIndia I noticed how terrible the service was, it being a government entity. Now all domestic airlines in the US are like AirIndia. Flying private/charter is the only choice, I wouldn't trust a commercial pilot for long haul or international travel.
- irl_chad 5y ago
  For all of my travel in mainland US, I fly private. $2k Miami to NY for example is very reasonable. But I don’t know of any service which offers shared private across the Atlantic, I just can’t justify spending 50k on a flight. Is the only real option for the 8 figure club to buy a jet card/fractional for international private flight?
  - chairmanwow1 5y ago
    What service is this?
    - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
      Sounds like Blade. Wheels Up is usually more than $2k for that route.
probably_wrong 5y ago
While I agree with avoiding airlines who behave badly, I don't think it addresses completely the point raised by the OP. Unruly behavior by airline staff? You don't fly in that airline anymore. Unruly behavior by a passenger? The passenger doesn't fly in any US airline nor any US-bound airline anymore. That doesn't seem like a proportional response.

kelnos 5y ago

Settling doesn't mean they were in the wrong. It just means they felt the price of settling was cheaper than the price of the bad publicity generated by dragging out a legal fight. (United employees didn't physically touch him; that was airport security.)

opo 5y ago
>Settling doesn't mean they were in the wrong. I'll take the CEO's word on this one: >...Munoz issued an additional statement, apologizing and promising that such an incident would never again occur on a United aircraft. Yes, the airlines reserve the right to not let you board due to their overbooking. In the case of the United passenger (and many others that came to light after this assault) the person had already boarded. At that point, the reasons for not transporting (Rule 21) are spelled out and they don't include reasons like ("we decided to use the seat for our employee" or "a gold member wants the seat"), etc. The idea of involuntary bumping itself should probably be viewed as regulatory capture. We don't allow that in other industries. There is nothing inherently wrong with the idea of overbooking as it allows for more efficient use of planes. Whether that results in lower ticket prices or leads to more profit for the airline will actually vary, but it is ultimately immaterial - making more productive use of airplanes is good for everybody. The issue is involuntary bumping and people treating this as somehow acceptable. If the airlines screw up and have too many passengers for too few seats, it is up to them to solve the problem through voluntary means and not assault. Just about everyone has a price they would be willing to give up their seat and it will be different than the person next to them. If you are traveling on a last minute ticket to visit a family member in the hospital, you might not be willing to delay your travel for any amount of money. If you are traveling on a vacation, the amount might be relatively little. Also some passengers will value some things more than others - offering a year of platinum level membership might entice a business traveller, offering money might entice a college student, upgrades to first class might entice others, etc.

mise_en_place 5y ago

Commercial domestic airlines in the US are effectively nationalized. The first time I flew AirIndia I noticed how terrible the service was, it being a government entity. Now all domestic airlines in the US are like AirIndia. Flying private/charter is the only choice, I wouldn't trust a commercial pilot for long haul or international travel.

irl_chad 5y ago
For all of my travel in mainland US, I fly private. $2k Miami to NY for example is very reasonable. But I don’t know of any service which offers shared private across the Atlantic, I just can’t justify spending 50k on a flight. Is the only real option for the 8 figure club to buy a jet card/fractional for international private flight?
- chairmanwow1 5y ago
  What service is this?
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    Sounds like Blade. Wheels Up is usually more than $2k for that route.

probably_wrong 5y ago

While I agree with avoiding airlines who behave badly, I don't think it addresses completely the point raised by the OP. Unruly behavior by airline staff? You don't fly in that airline anymore. Unruly behavior by a passenger? The passenger doesn't fly in any US airline nor any US-bound airline anymore. That doesn't seem like a proportional response.