11 ms·
Thats an isolated case. There are hundreds of these antivax people ruining flights and endangering other people on planes. What you are talking about is complet
by stjohnswarts 5y ago
Thats an isolated case. There are hundreds of these antivax people ruining flights and endangering other people on planes. What you are talking about is completely orthogonal.
- elzbardico 5y agoThere's the whole non-sense of mandating the use of useless cloth or surgical masks in a fucking commercial plane, one of the places with the best ventilation of all closed places. Do those people realize that an airliner cycles all the air in the cabin every few minutes?
- p_l 5y agoIt doesn't exactly "cycle", and in fact it's too dangerous to board with strong allergies due to how long the air circulates in a plane[1]. Anything else is airline PR trying to prevent total shutdown. A good fitted mask gives considerable increase in safety factor, though, so if you need to fly, wear one. [1] If you have really strong allergies for example for peanuts, you're obliged to inform the airline about it, and then the final decision on whether you fly or not belongs to plane captain. If they agree, it usually involves things like banning peanuts from the flight (no matter where bought), and keeping a steward(ess) with epipen close by for the whole of the flight. At least one person got banned from a low cost airline in Europe when they opened their airport-bought peanuts on such a flight (after multiple repeated announcements that it's disallowed). The air isn't cycled enough to prevent peanut dust from causing anaphylactic shock on the other side of an 737.
- chana_masala 5y ago
- tlss 5y agoIf you're talking about terrible behaviour from United employees, this is not an isolated case. See also "United Breaks Guitars" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo
- khazhoux 5y agoShitty baggage handlers aren’t a threat to passenger safety. (Also: RIP you beautiful guitars and cellos unjustly sacrificed)
- dorfsmay 5y agoA threat to passenger safety? Which behaviour? Not wearing a mask? Have you been on an airplane since the pandemic started? My experience has been: You have to wear a mask in airports, EXCEPT while close to a vending machine and eating. You have to wear a mask on airplanes EXCEPT while eating and drinking food provided by the airline. I'm pro-mask, I think they help protecting others, especially workers that don't really have a choice (eg: cashiers), I'm pro-vaccine to protect one's own health and prevent health care system collapse, but as far as I am concerned masks in airports and airplanes (and requirements for vaccines on airplanes in Canada) is a joke and some ass-covering from politicians, which somehow trickled down into virtue signaling of "which side" people are.
- biztos 5y agoMeanwhile in Europe, Ryanair advertises its pre-order food service as the legal way to fly (mostly) unmasked. I’m as masked as you can be while also drinking wine, i.e. mask on between sips, but there’s a lot of bad faith on many sides here.
- moomin 5y agoYou say that, but at least one person has died as a result of baggage handlers destroying their wheelchair.
- flir 5y agoHeh. Compare with the (entirely reasonable IMO) sense of entitlement of a pre-2001 passenger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSb5S1_B2YA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSb5S1_B2YA But a guitar you say I gotta check it at the gate Well that isn't gonna happen get your hand off the case Get your hand off the case less you wanna lose an arm
- SergeAx 5y agoI am sorry, how can people who don't believe in vaccines ruin flights?
- WesternWind 5y agoby refusing to get vaccinated, wear masks, get tested, or otherwise take steps to prevent the spread of a virus during a pandemic.
- logicchains 5y agoOr maybe they actually read the scientific literature and know the vaccine is completely ineffective at stopping the spread of the virus: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2821%2900768-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... Or is The Lancet fake news to you?
- consp 5y agoYour conclusion of this is fake news since it massively prevents hospitalization and severe side effects, including death, and is thus effective.
- otabdeveloper4 5y agoStatistics show otherwise. But what do I know, I'm not a guy trained to Trust the Scientific Authority, just a lowly pleb with a degree who does math and statistics for a living.
- khazhoux 5y agoHospital ICU COVID patients are almost entirely the unvaccinated. This is not in disupte except by conspiracists. What’s the alternative statistical explanation of why unvaxxed are ~90% of covid ICU?
- 5y ago
- logicchains 5y agoHopefully you're aware that the vaccines are completely ineffective at preventing transmission: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2821%2900768-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3....
- mpweiher 5y agoThey are not. You are quoting an opinion letter to the Lancet, not peer reviewed research (see the "CORRESPONDENCE" in the top left corner). Passing opinions/letters off as peer reviewed research can legitimately be classified as "fake news" The authors of the study that this letter referenced responded to the letter: "Although our findings support Franco-Peredes’ conclusion that vaccination status should not replace social and physical public health mitigation practices, the above clarifications explain why our findings do not support his assertion that mandatory vaccination of health-care workers would not reduce nosocomial SARS-CoV-2 transmission." https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00761-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...
- rixed 5y agoI have trouble picturing geometry in this space, but it certainly does not strike me as orthogonal. I find it fair, actually, to remind people of any occurrence of such power imbalance.
- azinman2 5y agoNot when there’s a giant spike in people being total jerks, grounding planes and making everyone late, and endangering peoples lives. This is not happening anywhere near the same scale of staff to passengers, so “reminding of a power imbalance” serves to create a false equivalency.
- Dracophoenix 5y agoI have a smaller chance of being murdered than being robbed. Mere frequency doesn't make one crime lesser or greater than the other. It's possible to be cognizant of two wrongs and commensurately apply the appropriate remedies to each one. There's no reason to operate on the fallacy of there being only one problem to think of at any given time or to presume that covariance doesn't exist.
- rixed 5y agoYou are certainly right in the short term, but this no-fly list process, like any extraordinary process put in place in extraordinary circumstances, esp. around air flights, will stick forever.
- aksss 5y ago
- DonHopkins 5y ago
- stevehawk 5y agoit happens.. former playboy playmate recently slapped an 80 year old man for not wearing a mask.. both sides are guilty
- DonHopkins 5y ago
- iqanq 5y ago
- DonHopkins 5y ago
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoI did not read all of your links, but as far as I can tell there were 2 incidents (one in Georgia and one in Michigan) that you keep posting over and over again. Is that right?
- DonHopkins 5y ago
- Chris2048 5y agoDo you have a link to any studies? Because otherwise links to news articles are only evidence of what makes the news.
- DyslexicAtheist 5y agoThere are plenty of Karen's not just among the passengers but also among airline staff. This sounds like "more power to corporations!". It should be decided by a court on an individual basis not by a chuckle-duck CEO based on staff complaints. It's easy to move from this to "let's share lists across airlines." And followed by "hire people only if they're not on the list?" All because a flight attendant had a bad day. Not apologizing for anti-maskers or other ill-behavior. But the way to solve this is in the courts not by privatizing justice.
- thread_id 5y agoUnder no circumstances should the Department of Homeland Insecurity should be co-opted into blacklisting U.S. Citizens on behalf private commercial corporations over disputes that it has with its customers. The CEO of Delta should be fired over such an abject failure in leadership. And.... what keeps on getting lost is airlines like Delta and United would never find the space to get this bad if future customers would vote with their dollars and simply choose not to purchase their product. Then change would happen. https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/john-oliver-how-airlines-make-your-life-hell.html https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/john-oliver-how-airlines-...
- sib 5y agoI was on a flight just last night leaving LAX on which two adult passengers decided - 5 minutes after leaving the gate, before we got to the runway - that they would take off their masks and refuse to put them back on. The plane returned to the gate, a security agent came on board, removed them (no force needed). Then we had to confirm their baggage was off the plane, get new paperwork, push back again, adjust takeoff slot, etc. We wasted 40 minutes of time for the ~100 people on the plane. Some may have missed connecting flights. While I don't think a lifetime ban from civil aviation is warranted, I think a significant fine and a temporary ban would be appropriate.
- wang_li 5y agoThe headline of the linked article is literally: >Delta CEO wants U.S. to put convicted unruly passengers on 'no-fly' list And the first paragraph says: >Delta Air Lines (DAL.N) wants the U.S. government to place passengers convicted of on-board disruptions on a national "no-fly" list that would bar them from future travel on any commercial airline, according to a letter seen by Reuters. Seems like the proposal involves courts.
- mikevm 5y ago[flagged]
- cleancoder0 5y agoStatements like "vaccine does not protect against infection", or "vaccine does not stop transmission" are obviously true, because vaccine cannot be 100% effective. But the data clearly shows that spread and 2nd order effects are reduced in a heavily vaccinated population.
- easytiger 5y ago> But the data clearly shows that spread and 2nd order effects are reduced in a heavily vaccinated population. For the world's most dominant strain B.1.1.529 after 10-20 weeks there is no effective difference. Your church has some doctrines which you clearly don't full understand
- mikevm 5y ago> Statements like "vaccine does not protect against infection", or "vaccine does not stop transmission" are obviously true, because vaccine cannot be 100% effective. Are they obviously true? I present you exhibit A: https://youtu.be/jDtUWXOmLLg?t=373 https://youtu.be/jDtUWXOmLLg?t=373 This is false and blatant misinformation. > But the data clearly shows that spread and 2nd order effects are reduced in a heavily vaccinated population. How is this relevant? The OP claimed that anti-vaxxers are endangering people. Whom are they endangering? Other vaccinated people?
- user-the-name 5y ago> If the vaccine works then you have nothing to worry about. That is not how any vaccine works. A vaccine decreases the chance of a catching a disease, it does not eliminate it. The way the disease is eliminated is by getting as large a fraction as possible of people vaccinated, so that spread is stopped. Surely this is not the first time you have heard of herd immunity?
- mikevm 5y ago