6 ms·

What people want is to stop being forced to pay Apple’s 15-30%. Alternative payment processors were never going to accomplish that, as this case shows. You can

by jmull 5y ago

What people want is to stop being forced to pay Apple’s 15-30%. Alternative payment processors were never going to accomplish that, as this case shows. You can make Apple accept alternative payment processors, but that doesn’t really change the price they set for using their store. Unless you want to abandon a free market economy, a government can’t force a company to provide a certain service at a certain price. Squeeze one spot with regulation and a company will extract more revenue from another. Squeeze everywhere and a company will leave the market. What they should do is force Apple to allow competing stores. Apple can keep it’s 15-30%… if it can compete at that level. If not, it will have to adjust, by either offering something more compelling to developers or charging them less. And if Apple can’t do well enough, and pulls back from its app store, then, well, iPhone users will still have the stores of all those stronger competitors to choose from. We don’t have to wonder what a platform with a competing sources for software looks like. We have a bunch of them, and they seem to work well.

ericmay 5y ago
> What people want is to stop being forced to pay Apple’s 15-30%. Just to be clear developers care about this, not “people”. Vast majority of iPhone users couldn’t care less. Wanna know why? Because the developers have to compete on price and Apple is cutting into their margins. This is Apple vs app developers through and through. If Apple stopped taking a cut there would be no price changes. Developers would just make better margin. Since Apple provides me with a great experience and developers tend to mostly be bad or mediocre, I’ll stick with Apple thank you. > What they should do is force Apple to allow competing stores. No thanks. I like that my grandma who uses Facebook has Apple making sure (within bounds) that they aren’t doing shady stuff, and that they have to state what they use data for and confirm permissions routinely. > We don’t have to wonder what a platform with a competing sources for software looks like. We have a bunch of them, and they seem to work well. If it’s the best model you don’t need government intervention because it’ll just win out. If Apple’s “monopoly” on the App Store is that bad people will buy other phones. But the truth is it’s a great model and users love it, which is why Apple crushes sales quarter after quarter. This reminds me of someone recently defending Google doing something on behalf of users. Developers thinking they know what their users want “opt them in to this great feature they previously opted out of” so they can discover it. Same stuff different tune. It’s all business and just rich corporations attacking other rich corporations with no benefit, except that I lose benefits when Apple isn’t in charge.
- Lucasoato 5y ago
  > I like that my grandma who uses Facebook has Apple making sure (within bounds) that they aren’t doing shady stuff The problem is that it has been proven that Apple used its store in a monopolistic way, lying to developers, stealing ideas for its own native apps, ruining developers' life. This is much more than just an economic problem, you can't trade dark patterns for presumed governance and security.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Based on my experience I say give them even more control. I don’t care if they have a monopoly nor do I think they “have a monopoly” anymore than any other store or marketplace.
    - commoner 5y ago
      You and anyone else can continue to purchase or install apps exclusively through the App Store, even if Apple's App Store is not the only way to get apps on iOS. People who prefer to purchase or install iOS apps through other means are the ones harmed by Apple's anti-competitive restrictions, and that is why countries around the world are gradually introducing new regulations that curb Apple's ability to limit consumer choice.
      - ericmay 5y ago
        Who is this anti-competitive for? If Apple cedes control over the App Store I lose all of the benefits. Who will implement anonymous Sign In with Apple when you can just, create an alternative App Store and bypass this? No more Apple Pay. No more privacy fact sheets and enforcements. You name it. Apple collectively bargains on behalf of users against predatory developers. I honestly cannot comprehend why people can’t just buy an Android phone if they want the Amazon Prime App Store or the Meta App Store of whatever. Leave us alone. We like the iPhone this way. I’d rather developers stop writing new software than to give up these controls. If apple is this big bad monopoly or whatever seriously just don’t buy their products. When you go to buy your next phone say “I want multiple app stores. Therefore iPhone is not the device for me” and then just buy the Android phone that supports the features you want. Only having one App Store is the feature I want, which is why I buy the iPhone. If this feature is a big deal to customers than they will start buying other products and then apple may have to change how it does things. But we both know that won’t happen because Apple’s way is the superior model. There’s just a minority of developers who complain loudly and then other mega corps who want to increase their margins. Again. There’s absolutely 0, and I mean 0 benefit to me as a customer to change this, and instead I lose lots of benefits that I enjoy.
ativzzz 5y ago
> What they should do is force Apple to allow competing stores. What's to stop Apple from charging the owners of any competing store 30% of their store's revenue?
- commoner 5y ago
  New antitrust regulations like the Open App Markets Act in the U.S. would prevent this kind of fee from affecting app stores that are sideloaded onto the device. The Netherlands and other countries can easily replicate this bill. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195167

by jmull 5y ago

ericmay 5y ago

> What people want is to stop being forced to pay Apple’s 15-30%. Just to be clear developers care about this, not “people”. Vast majority of iPhone users couldn’t care less. Wanna know why? Because the developers have to compete on price and Apple is cutting into their margins. This is Apple vs app developers through and through. If Apple stopped taking a cut there would be no price changes. Developers would just make better margin. Since Apple provides me with a great experience and developers tend to mostly be bad or mediocre, I’ll stick with Apple thank you. > What they should do is force Apple to allow competing stores. No thanks. I like that my grandma who uses Facebook has Apple making sure (within bounds) that they aren’t doing shady stuff, and that they have to state what they use data for and confirm permissions routinely. > We don’t have to wonder what a platform with a competing sources for software looks like. We have a bunch of them, and they seem to work well. If it’s the best model you don’t need government intervention because it’ll just win out. If Apple’s “monopoly” on the App Store is that bad people will buy other phones. But the truth is it’s a great model and users love it, which is why Apple crushes sales quarter after quarter. This reminds me of someone recently defending Google doing something on behalf of users. Developers thinking they know what their users want “opt them in to this great feature they previously opted out of” so they can discover it. Same stuff different tune. It’s all business and just rich corporations attacking other rich corporations with no benefit, except that I lose benefits when Apple isn’t in charge.

Lucasoato 5y ago
> I like that my grandma who uses Facebook has Apple making sure (within bounds) that they aren’t doing shady stuff The problem is that it has been proven that Apple used its store in a monopolistic way, lying to developers, stealing ideas for its own native apps, ruining developers' life. This is much more than just an economic problem, you can't trade dark patterns for presumed governance and security.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Based on my experience I say give them even more control. I don’t care if they have a monopoly nor do I think they “have a monopoly” anymore than any other store or marketplace.
  - commoner 5y ago
    You and anyone else can continue to purchase or install apps exclusively through the App Store, even if Apple's App Store is not the only way to get apps on iOS. People who prefer to purchase or install iOS apps through other means are the ones harmed by Apple's anti-competitive restrictions, and that is why countries around the world are gradually introducing new regulations that curb Apple's ability to limit consumer choice.
    - ericmay 5y ago
      Who is this anti-competitive for? If Apple cedes control over the App Store I lose all of the benefits. Who will implement anonymous Sign In with Apple when you can just, create an alternative App Store and bypass this? No more Apple Pay. No more privacy fact sheets and enforcements. You name it. Apple collectively bargains on behalf of users against predatory developers. I honestly cannot comprehend why people can’t just buy an Android phone if they want the Amazon Prime App Store or the Meta App Store of whatever. Leave us alone. We like the iPhone this way. I’d rather developers stop writing new software than to give up these controls. If apple is this big bad monopoly or whatever seriously just don’t buy their products. When you go to buy your next phone say “I want multiple app stores. Therefore iPhone is not the device for me” and then just buy the Android phone that supports the features you want. Only having one App Store is the feature I want, which is why I buy the iPhone. If this feature is a big deal to customers than they will start buying other products and then apple may have to change how it does things. But we both know that won’t happen because Apple’s way is the superior model. There’s just a minority of developers who complain loudly and then other mega corps who want to increase their margins. Again. There’s absolutely 0, and I mean 0 benefit to me as a customer to change this, and instead I lose lots of benefits that I enjoy.

ativzzz 5y ago

> What they should do is force Apple to allow competing stores. What's to stop Apple from charging the owners of any competing store 30% of their store's revenue?

commoner 5y ago
New antitrust regulations like the Open App Markets Act in the U.S. would prevent this kind of fee from affecting app stores that are sideloaded onto the device. The Netherlands and other countries can easily replicate this bill. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195167