10 ms·

Topics like this always remind me the actual agenda of tech/fin folks- social conservatism

by notananthem 5y ago

_qbjt 5y ago
[flagged]
- iamdamian 5y ago
  That hasn't been my experience at all over 10+ years.
  - krapp 5y ago
    You can literally just scroll down and see it.
    - spacechild1 5y ago
      Already heavily downvoted and soon dead.
      - krapp 5y ago
        The fact that it's there to begin with is still a problem. The fact that you have to keep stomping cockroaches doesn't mean your house isn't infested.
        spacechild1 5y ago
        Homophobia exists and we have to fight it. That's the sad reality. Yes, homophobic comments are harmful and reading can already do damage. But what can we do apart from downvoting/flagging?
        DoktorDelta 5y ago
        banning?
        spacechild1 5y ago
        Even better: shadow banning. This already happens. I think the problem is that HN needs more moderators. It relies too much on self-moderation.
        iamdamian 5y ago
        > The fact that it's there to begin with is still a problem. I disagree, I think it's really just how it's dealt with that matters. And again, this is literally the first time I've seen a comment like that on HN.
        throwawayrev3 5y ago
        A big part of the pull of HN is the opportunity to participate in live discussions happening around things that are on the front pages. The problem with 'how it's dealt with is that matters' is that it's essentially telling the LGBTQ person to come participate only after things have settled down or dealt with. By then the heat of the discussion is over, or the post has been shot down to the 3rd or 4th page. In some places, there is a practice of women cooking food and first all the males eat it while the women wait. Then after they finished, the women start eating. They are treated like second class citizens. Sensible places ban people who say being gay or LGBTQ is mental health issue. It's 2022.
        spacechild1 5y ago
        I think you have a point. I do think that people get (shadow) banned for writing stuff like this, but we need more mods. Ideally, they should live in different time zones. One the other hand, I personally don't remember seeing such comments before. Does this really happen regularly?
        throwawayvibes 5y ago
        spacechild1 5y ago
        What do you mean with “your circles“?
        throwawayvibes 5y ago
        Maybe if people did not open the discussion with virtue signaling their sexuality, things wouldn't be so bad. I'm not straight, yet I hate on the rainbow crowd, and I never mention it because it's fucking cringe to bring these things up outside of personal discussions in person. You give everyone a bad name because of this. Just like how most women I know shun and find feminists cringe.
        scotty79 5y ago
        Would you like the people to stop thinking their thoughts or do you like someone else to read those thoughts (if they are published) so that they can 100% shield you from them for free?
        dang 5y ago
        If you know of a way to write software to classify such comments correctly when they first appear on a public internet forum, I'm all ears. Otherwise, it takes time for countervailing mechanisms, like user flags and moderation, to kick in and deal with such comments. To act like those comments are somehow representative of the community is 100% untrue and I'm ashamed to see you stoop to that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        krapp 5y ago
        >To act like those comments are somehow representative of the community is 100% untrue and I'm ashamed to see you stoop to that. They do represent an aspect of the community. Not the community as a whole - you seem to assume that every criticism of a part of the community is an attack on the whole - rather a toxicity within it that seems to be growing, albeit slowly and not without resistance. That it is growing isn't a reflection on the users and moderators as much as the society that feeds into the community. We can only do what we can, but no one can command the tides. To pretend this toxicity and bad behavior is something alien and wholly detached from the community, or that because comments are flagged and killed they don't represent the community, is specious and counterproductive. All of it is the community, good and bad. This rising toxicity and anger and cynicism is a real problem, and if you didn't take every criticism of the community so defensively as you seem to, I think you'd agree. No, I don't know what can be done about it, but I'm certain it's not a problem that can be solve with software classifiers. I'm not going to be ashamed for pointing it out and complaining about it, either. If we simply quietly downvote and flag but otherwise stay silent, then there's no social pressure against that kind of behavior. But I know you don't like repetition so I'll try not to do it that often.
        spacechild1 5y ago
        > If we simply quietly downvote and flag but otherwise stay silent People already do speak up. I just don't think that HN has a general homophobia problem. Such comments are definitively outliers and are dealt with by the mods and the community. The only thing I would complain about is that it doesn't happen fast enough for a site like this where posts come and go quickly.
- throwawayrev3 5y ago
  It's true. There are many supportive people too. I think the problem is that the 'mental disorder' guys are not banned. So they keep on commenting. Flagging doesn't work that well, because one already read the comment.
- spacechild1 5y ago
  > Hacker News really is hostile to the LGBTQ community. I never noticed that. Keep in mind that HN is not a uniform mass, it's full of people with wildy different opinions. Yes, there are probably some homophobic comments, but they are a tiny minority. > seeing people here equate being gay to a mental disorder I would expect such a comment to get downvoted into oblivion and/or called out by other users.
- zmix 5y ago
  - zmix 5y ago
    - spacechild1 5y ago
      Your question doesn't make any sense and nobody believes you that you're asking it “out of pure interest“.
      - zmix 5y ago
        I didn't know, that a question for "any definitive scientific research results" "doesn't make any sense".
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - dang 5y ago
      Trolling like this will get you banned here. Please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- throwawayvibes 5y ago
  Being gay is not a mental disorder, but gender dysphoria (just like body dysphoria) is, and should be medicated and treated responsibly instead of making it the new norm and not providing people with the mental care they need.
  - iaml 5y ago
    > gender dysphoria (just like body dysphoria) is, and should be medicated and treated responsibly I'm sure you were trying to be offensive here (no surprise here, coming from a throwaway account) but apart from it not being called that anymore (DSM-5 calls it "Gender Incongruence" now) and it not being a disorder (again, see DSM), you are mostly correct. It should be treated by medication (HRT) and social transition, and of course appropriate therapy should be provided.
    - throwawayvibes 5y ago
      - iaml 5y ago
        > DSM is not an authority on these issues And you, random commenter on the internet not even invested in the discourse enough to use real account and obviously trying to push your own agenda, are the authority? If you're a professional you surely wouldn't mind sharing the sources and your credentials, would you?
        throwawayvibes 5y ago
        You first.
  - dang 5y ago
    We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Topics like this always remind me the actual agenda of tech/fin folks- social conservatism

_qbjt 5y ago

[flagged]

iamdamian 5y ago
That hasn't been my experience at all over 10+ years.
- krapp 5y ago
  You can literally just scroll down and see it.
  - spacechild1 5y ago
    Already heavily downvoted and soon dead.
    - krapp 5y ago
      The fact that it's there to begin with is still a problem. The fact that you have to keep stomping cockroaches doesn't mean your house isn't infested.
      - spacechild1 5y ago
        Homophobia exists and we have to fight it. That's the sad reality. Yes, homophobic comments are harmful and reading can already do damage. But what can we do apart from downvoting/flagging?
        DoktorDelta 5y ago
        banning?
        spacechild1 5y ago
        Even better: shadow banning. This already happens. I think the problem is that HN needs more moderators. It relies too much on self-moderation.
      - iamdamian 5y ago
        > The fact that it's there to begin with is still a problem. I disagree, I think it's really just how it's dealt with that matters. And again, this is literally the first time I've seen a comment like that on HN.
        throwawayrev3 5y ago
        A big part of the pull of HN is the opportunity to participate in live discussions happening around things that are on the front pages. The problem with 'how it's dealt with is that matters' is that it's essentially telling the LGBTQ person to come participate only after things have settled down or dealt with. By then the heat of the discussion is over, or the post has been shot down to the 3rd or 4th page. In some places, there is a practice of women cooking food and first all the males eat it while the women wait. Then after they finished, the women start eating. They are treated like second class citizens. Sensible places ban people who say being gay or LGBTQ is mental health issue. It's 2022.
        spacechild1 5y ago
        I think you have a point. I do think that people get (shadow) banned for writing stuff like this, but we need more mods. Ideally, they should live in different time zones. One the other hand, I personally don't remember seeing such comments before. Does this really happen regularly?
        throwawayvibes 5y ago
        spacechild1 5y ago
        What do you mean with “your circles“?
        throwawayvibes 5y ago
        Maybe if people did not open the discussion with virtue signaling their sexuality, things wouldn't be so bad. I'm not straight, yet I hate on the rainbow crowd, and I never mention it because it's fucking cringe to bring these things up outside of personal discussions in person. You give everyone a bad name because of this. Just like how most women I know shun and find feminists cringe.
      - scotty79 5y ago
        Would you like the people to stop thinking their thoughts or do you like someone else to read those thoughts (if they are published) so that they can 100% shield you from them for free?
      - dang 5y ago
        If you know of a way to write software to classify such comments correctly when they first appear on a public internet forum, I'm all ears. Otherwise, it takes time for countervailing mechanisms, like user flags and moderation, to kick in and deal with such comments. To act like those comments are somehow representative of the community is 100% untrue and I'm ashamed to see you stoop to that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        krapp 5y ago
        >To act like those comments are somehow representative of the community is 100% untrue and I'm ashamed to see you stoop to that. They do represent an aspect of the community. Not the community as a whole - you seem to assume that every criticism of a part of the community is an attack on the whole - rather a toxicity within it that seems to be growing, albeit slowly and not without resistance. That it is growing isn't a reflection on the users and moderators as much as the society that feeds into the community. We can only do what we can, but no one can command the tides. To pretend this toxicity and bad behavior is something alien and wholly detached from the community, or that because comments are flagged and killed they don't represent the community, is specious and counterproductive. All of it is the community, good and bad. This rising toxicity and anger and cynicism is a real problem, and if you didn't take every criticism of the community so defensively as you seem to, I think you'd agree. No, I don't know what can be done about it, but I'm certain it's not a problem that can be solve with software classifiers. I'm not going to be ashamed for pointing it out and complaining about it, either. If we simply quietly downvote and flag but otherwise stay silent, then there's no social pressure against that kind of behavior. But I know you don't like repetition so I'll try not to do it that often.
        spacechild1 5y ago
        > If we simply quietly downvote and flag but otherwise stay silent People already do speak up. I just don't think that HN has a general homophobia problem. Such comments are definitively outliers and are dealt with by the mods and the community. The only thing I would complain about is that it doesn't happen fast enough for a site like this where posts come and go quickly.
throwawayrev3 5y ago
It's true. There are many supportive people too. I think the problem is that the 'mental disorder' guys are not banned. So they keep on commenting. Flagging doesn't work that well, because one already read the comment.
spacechild1 5y ago
> Hacker News really is hostile to the LGBTQ community. I never noticed that. Keep in mind that HN is not a uniform mass, it's full of people with wildy different opinions. Yes, there are probably some homophobic comments, but they are a tiny minority. > seeing people here equate being gay to a mental disorder I would expect such a comment to get downvoted into oblivion and/or called out by other users.
zmix 5y ago
- zmix 5y ago
  - spacechild1 5y ago
    Your question doesn't make any sense and nobody believes you that you're asking it “out of pure interest“.
    - zmix 5y ago
      I didn't know, that a question for "any definitive scientific research results" "doesn't make any sense".
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dang 5y ago
    Trolling like this will get you banned here. Please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
throwawayvibes 5y ago
Being gay is not a mental disorder, but gender dysphoria (just like body dysphoria) is, and should be medicated and treated responsibly instead of making it the new norm and not providing people with the mental care they need.
- iaml 5y ago
  > gender dysphoria (just like body dysphoria) is, and should be medicated and treated responsibly I'm sure you were trying to be offensive here (no surprise here, coming from a throwaway account) but apart from it not being called that anymore (DSM-5 calls it "Gender Incongruence" now) and it not being a disorder (again, see DSM), you are mostly correct. It should be treated by medication (HRT) and social transition, and of course appropriate therapy should be provided.
  - throwawayvibes 5y ago
    - iaml 5y ago
      > DSM is not an authority on these issues And you, random commenter on the internet not even invested in the discourse enough to use real account and obviously trying to push your own agenda, are the authority? If you're a professional you surely wouldn't mind sharing the sources and your credentials, would you?
      - throwawayvibes 5y ago
        You first.
- dang 5y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html