4 ms·

Kendi's comments and the CRT framework in general are COLLECTIVE, not individual. That is the issue. It assigns collective blame based on skin color, not actual

by yucky 5y ago

Kendi's comments and the CRT framework in general are COLLECTIVE, not individual. That is the issue. It assigns collective blame based on skin color, not actual individual culpability. It also assumes oppression based on race/ethnicity, not on actual experiences of an individual. We know there were black slaveowners for instance, so how does that affect the calculus? There is no non-racist way to blame people for something they had no part in simply based on the color of their skin.

eesmith 5y ago
You are not being blamed. It's not your fault. CRT is very clear to point out how historical racist structures can persist even if no one is racist. Why do you think Oregon has so few Black people? CRT does not assign collective blame based on skin color. You have provided not one whit of evidence for this. Instead you've totally misunderstood a quote from Kendi, which I've tried to explain here. We are all, collectively, Americans. We, collectively, still live with the effects of deliberate collective racial discrimination[1]. Some alive today were explicitly targeted by racist Jim Crow laws, with actual experiences. It is our American responsibility to right this historical wrong as best we can. Is paying reparations to those living people racist? Is paying reparations to the living children of those people racist? Are non-monetary reparations in the name of those people also racist? If you agree with any sort of reparations for racial injustice, including the interned Japanese-Americans, then you agree with Kendi's quote. I repeat: You don't stick a knife in a man's back then pull it out and say that that treating his wounds would be discriminate against those who had never been knifed. The promissory note is long overdue. Let's pay it now. [1] As a white person, even I am affected, because of the deliberately constructed lies about American race history taught to me in school, including lies of omission.
- yucky 5y ago
  >Is paying reparations to those living people racist? Is paying reparations to the living children of those people racist? Are non-monetary reparations in the name of those people also racist? How does that work, in your mind. Who pays? If you say "taxpayers" then you are saying the victims need to pay reparations as well. That seems logical to you? Also, how do you prove direct harm? In the Japanese internment example it's easy to say "I was sent to an internment camp by FDR". Ok cool, easy enough. But then there is "my dad was sent to an internment camp by FDR, and as a result my parents became risk averse and potentially never earned as much as they could, which may have indirectly impacted my opportunities". And then there is "My mom was raised by someone who's parents were sent to an internment camp" and that has somehow trickled down to impact me in some undefined way." And then we need to discuss how this impacts the offspring of mixed parentage, are they equally victim/beneficiary? How far down the rabbit hole do we go?
  - eesmith 5y ago
    > Who pays? Exactly the same people who paid reparations for the Japanese internment camps -- something you support. > That seems logical to you? Yes, it's logical. Because that's what you agreed was appropriate for the Japanese internment camps. > Also, how do you prove direct harm? Which is why I gave an explicit example of direct harm, for the beach resort that was seized because of race prejudice. Was returning that property racist? You still haven't answered. > my dad was sent to an internment camp by FDR, and as a result Which is why I started with asking about reparations for those people who are still alive. Do you think a law providing for redress for Black people directly harmed by racist Jim Crows laws, and who are still alive, is itself racist? Instead, you seem to say "it's complicated, so we can't do anything. Oh, and it's racist to think about doing anything."
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

by yucky 5y ago

eesmith 5y ago

You are not being blamed. It's not your fault. CRT is very clear to point out how historical racist structures can persist even if no one is racist. Why do you think Oregon has so few Black people? CRT does not assign collective blame based on skin color. You have provided not one whit of evidence for this. Instead you've totally misunderstood a quote from Kendi, which I've tried to explain here. We are all, collectively, Americans. We, collectively, still live with the effects of deliberate collective racial discrimination[1]. Some alive today were explicitly targeted by racist Jim Crow laws, with actual experiences. It is our American responsibility to right this historical wrong as best we can. Is paying reparations to those living people racist? Is paying reparations to the living children of those people racist? Are non-monetary reparations in the name of those people also racist? If you agree with any sort of reparations for racial injustice, including the interned Japanese-Americans, then you agree with Kendi's quote. I repeat: You don't stick a knife in a man's back then pull it out and say that that treating his wounds would be discriminate against those who had never been knifed. The promissory note is long overdue. Let's pay it now. [1] As a white person, even I am affected, because of the deliberately constructed lies about American race history taught to me in school, including lies of omission.

yucky 5y ago
>Is paying reparations to those living people racist? Is paying reparations to the living children of those people racist? Are non-monetary reparations in the name of those people also racist? How does that work, in your mind. Who pays? If you say "taxpayers" then you are saying the victims need to pay reparations as well. That seems logical to you? Also, how do you prove direct harm? In the Japanese internment example it's easy to say "I was sent to an internment camp by FDR". Ok cool, easy enough. But then there is "my dad was sent to an internment camp by FDR, and as a result my parents became risk averse and potentially never earned as much as they could, which may have indirectly impacted my opportunities". And then there is "My mom was raised by someone who's parents were sent to an internment camp" and that has somehow trickled down to impact me in some undefined way." And then we need to discuss how this impacts the offspring of mixed parentage, are they equally victim/beneficiary? How far down the rabbit hole do we go?
- eesmith 5y ago
  > Who pays? Exactly the same people who paid reparations for the Japanese internment camps -- something you support. > That seems logical to you? Yes, it's logical. Because that's what you agreed was appropriate for the Japanese internment camps. > Also, how do you prove direct harm? Which is why I gave an explicit example of direct harm, for the beach resort that was seized because of race prejudice. Was returning that property racist? You still haven't answered. > my dad was sent to an internment camp by FDR, and as a result Which is why I started with asking about reparations for those people who are still alive. Do you think a law providing for redress for Black people directly harmed by racist Jim Crows laws, and who are still alive, is itself racist? Instead, you seem to say "it's complicated, so we can't do anything. Oh, and it's racist to think about doing anything."
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]