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I played the demo and while I find setting up automation engaging, the now-familiar exploitation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. For those of you who know Fact

I played the demo and while I find setting up automation engaging, the now-familiar exploitation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. For those of you who know Factorio being the demo, can trees be replanted? Can the engineer learn the local language, make amends, and adopt their culture? Is the ecosystem, the original factory-must-grow, modeled in depth? That’s approaching the game I’d like to play. I’m enjoying Valheim, which has light Factorio elements, and it could be far better if there were environmental consequences to clear-cutting, taking all the berries, killing all the boars, mining, and so on. If reciprocity for long-term health were part of the game (with short-term exploitation still an option), that’d be wonderful. I’ll eventually stop playing games and commit more time to improving the biodiversity of the land I’m on, and such a game might help inspire others, too, as these games are enjoyable low-stakes abstraction-layers for those with the luxury of time.

mesozoic 5y ago
Not sure if serious.gif
jdlshore 5y ago
The base game heavily and explicitly results in creating an environmental wasteland. You can choose to be more environmentally-friendly—I did a playthrough like that—but the only benefit is fewer attacks by the natives, which isn’t much of a benefit from a gameplay perspective. The game is heavily moddable, though, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a mod that made the gameplay more to your taste. It’s a very fun game and worth trying. FWIW, the code balancing mechanic in the game is “pollution makes enemies attack and grow stronger” so it’s possible for the game to have been about the dangers of exploitation. But that aspect of the game is poorly fleshed out compared to the rest of the game. Judging from the concept art they shared, that may be something they’re fixing with the expansion.
- jnwatson 5y ago
  The more aggressive modes, such as Death World, benefit much more from controlling pollution more rigorously.
montjoy 5y ago
My take is that the game really shows how destructive someone can be by monomaniacally exploiting everything to achieve a single goal. The game isn’t about harmony in any way. Sure you can choose to pollute less but after you become strong enough there is no longer any incentive to do so. The natives simply become ants to be swept aside. They are not a significant part of gameplay any longer because your defenses take care of them for you automatically. What makes the game so enjoyable is that it’s so open to creative problem solving. Things that work well for one stage become antiquated in later stages. How do you load/offload your full train in around in less than 10 seconds? How can you keep materials flowing to your factories quickly enough and get rid of bottlenecks? The demo doesn’t really communicate the amount of depth you can get into as far as that aspect goes (at least when I played it).
jnwatson 5y ago
There's a "Papers Please"-type subtext in Factorio, in that you're subtly induced to do uncomfortable things. One must alter the ecosystem significantly to survive and escape the planet. It speaks to the fundamental nature of humankind. By existing, we've permanently changed everything around us.

mesozoic 5y ago

Not sure if serious.gif

jdlshore 5y ago

The base game heavily and explicitly results in creating an environmental wasteland. You can choose to be more environmentally-friendly—I did a playthrough like that—but the only benefit is fewer attacks by the natives, which isn’t much of a benefit from a gameplay perspective. The game is heavily moddable, though, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a mod that made the gameplay more to your taste. It’s a very fun game and worth trying. FWIW, the code balancing mechanic in the game is “pollution makes enemies attack and grow stronger” so it’s possible for the game to have been about the dangers of exploitation. But that aspect of the game is poorly fleshed out compared to the rest of the game. Judging from the concept art they shared, that may be something they’re fixing with the expansion.

jnwatson 5y ago
The more aggressive modes, such as Death World, benefit much more from controlling pollution more rigorously.

montjoy 5y ago

My take is that the game really shows how destructive someone can be by monomaniacally exploiting everything to achieve a single goal. The game isn’t about harmony in any way. Sure you can choose to pollute less but after you become strong enough there is no longer any incentive to do so. The natives simply become ants to be swept aside. They are not a significant part of gameplay any longer because your defenses take care of them for you automatically. What makes the game so enjoyable is that it’s so open to creative problem solving. Things that work well for one stage become antiquated in later stages. How do you load/offload your full train in around in less than 10 seconds? How can you keep materials flowing to your factories quickly enough and get rid of bottlenecks? The demo doesn’t really communicate the amount of depth you can get into as far as that aspect goes (at least when I played it).

jnwatson 5y ago

There's a "Papers Please"-type subtext in Factorio, in that you're subtly induced to do uncomfortable things. One must alter the ecosystem significantly to survive and escape the planet. It speaks to the fundamental nature of humankind. By existing, we've permanently changed everything around us.