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The problem is that people can easily be induced to install software that negates the benefit of Apple’s hardware. Apple can’t deliver their hardware benefits

by zepto 5y ago

The problem is that people can easily be induced to install software that negates the benefit of Apple’s hardware. Apple can’t deliver their hardware benefits without also controlling the operating system. It’s as simple as that.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
> Apple can’t deliver their hardware benefits without also controlling the operating system. Nobody is talking about loading something besides iOS on Apple mobile devices. The argument that "The OS is everything" failed over 20 years ago in US v Microsoft.
- zepto 5y ago
  That’s irrelevant. It would be simple enough for Facebook for example to build a store into their own App, and build their own ‘platform’ within the Facebook app.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    So you mean how WeChat and Alibaba do it, and are allowed to do so by the App Store. Then why hasn't Meta done that? Perhaps they don't care to? Not that the Facebook app isn't already hugely overstuffed.
    - fxtentacle 5y ago
      Because Apple bent down for WeChat and Alibaba, but Apple won't do it for Facebook? I'm 100% sure that if Facebook could have an iOS app store, they would start one. It's worth all the work for the improved tracking alone, as app download ads are a big part of Facebook's mobile revenue.
      - Apocryphon 5y ago
        The GP is talking about Meta embedding its own app store within the Facebook app, not about Facebook creating its own iOS app store. An "internal" app store would still be subject to the same restrictions and security that the actual Apple App Store already has. I don't believe the mini-apps within WeChat or Alibaba's apps can flout those regulations, but it's China and those are big apps so who knows. From a technical perspective, I'm not sure how hosting littler apps within your own app, which is already on the Apple App Store and subject to its review process and rules, would allow you access to improved tracking. On the subject of a Meta third-party app store independent of Apple's control- yes, there is motivation there to do that, but I am dubious of how much of a threat that is to the end user because: 1. Apple still maintains control of iOS and can restrict invasive tracking from the OS level. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30199125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30199125 2. I'm not actually convinced that Meta, Google, Amazon, et al are really capable of executing successful alternative app stores. They would need to make it a sufficiently seamless and friction-free experience, and offer enough incentives for users to overcome having to sign up for yet another service just to use the apps they already have access to. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30204012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30204012
        zepto 5y ago
        No, the GP is talking about an App Store within the Facebook app.
manuelabeledo 5y ago
> The problem is that people can easily be induced to install software that negates the benefit of Apple’s hardware. Apple can’t deliver their hardware benefits without also controlling the operating system. Apple is less concerned about this than profits. They could make their hardware ecosystem more open, that's easy, but that wouldn't make them a significant amount of extra money, so why would they?
- zepto 5y ago
  You don’t seem to realize that Apple’s profits come mostly from hardware sales.
  - fxtentacle 5y ago
    They don't. They come from the new "Services" division.
    - zepto 5y ago
      Nope that’s complete bullshit. Do some googling.
      - fxtentacle 5y ago
        "Apple CFO Luca Maestri said that Apple's install base of devices hit a new all-time high as well, which helps drive services growth." "Cloud services, Apple Music , advertising, video, and payments saw all-time revenue records, while the App Store saw a new June quarter revenue record." "Services brought in $17.5 billion during the quarter" https://www.macrumors.com/2021/07/27/apple-services-revenue-q3-2021/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/07/27/apple-services-revenue-... "The Company posted a June quarter record revenue of $81.4 billion" https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/07/apple-reports-third-quarter-results/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/07/apple-reports-third-q... => Services is already 22% of their revenue and their strongest growth segment.
        5y ago

by zepto 5y ago

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

> Apple can’t deliver their hardware benefits without also controlling the operating system. Nobody is talking about loading something besides iOS on Apple mobile devices. The argument that "The OS is everything" failed over 20 years ago in US v Microsoft.

zepto 5y ago
That’s irrelevant. It would be simple enough for Facebook for example to build a store into their own App, and build their own ‘platform’ within the Facebook app.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  So you mean how WeChat and Alibaba do it, and are allowed to do so by the App Store. Then why hasn't Meta done that? Perhaps they don't care to? Not that the Facebook app isn't already hugely overstuffed.
  - fxtentacle 5y ago
    Because Apple bent down for WeChat and Alibaba, but Apple won't do it for Facebook? I'm 100% sure that if Facebook could have an iOS app store, they would start one. It's worth all the work for the improved tracking alone, as app download ads are a big part of Facebook's mobile revenue.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      The GP is talking about Meta embedding its own app store within the Facebook app, not about Facebook creating its own iOS app store. An "internal" app store would still be subject to the same restrictions and security that the actual Apple App Store already has. I don't believe the mini-apps within WeChat or Alibaba's apps can flout those regulations, but it's China and those are big apps so who knows. From a technical perspective, I'm not sure how hosting littler apps within your own app, which is already on the Apple App Store and subject to its review process and rules, would allow you access to improved tracking. On the subject of a Meta third-party app store independent of Apple's control- yes, there is motivation there to do that, but I am dubious of how much of a threat that is to the end user because: 1. Apple still maintains control of iOS and can restrict invasive tracking from the OS level. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30199125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30199125 2. I'm not actually convinced that Meta, Google, Amazon, et al are really capable of executing successful alternative app stores. They would need to make it a sufficiently seamless and friction-free experience, and offer enough incentives for users to overcome having to sign up for yet another service just to use the apps they already have access to. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30204012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30204012
      - zepto 5y ago
        No, the GP is talking about an App Store within the Facebook app.

manuelabeledo 5y ago

> The problem is that people can easily be induced to install software that negates the benefit of Apple’s hardware. Apple can’t deliver their hardware benefits without also controlling the operating system. Apple is less concerned about this than profits. They could make their hardware ecosystem more open, that's easy, but that wouldn't make them a significant amount of extra money, so why would they?

zepto 5y ago
You don’t seem to realize that Apple’s profits come mostly from hardware sales.
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  They don't. They come from the new "Services" division.
  - zepto 5y ago
    Nope that’s complete bullshit. Do some googling.
    - fxtentacle 5y ago
      "Apple CFO Luca Maestri said that Apple's install base of devices hit a new all-time high as well, which helps drive services growth." "Cloud services, Apple Music , advertising, video, and payments saw all-time revenue records, while the App Store saw a new June quarter revenue record." "Services brought in $17.5 billion during the quarter" https://www.macrumors.com/2021/07/27/apple-services-revenue-q3-2021/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/07/27/apple-services-revenue-... "The Company posted a June quarter record revenue of $81.4 billion" https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/07/apple-reports-third-quarter-results/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/07/apple-reports-third-q... => Services is already 22% of their revenue and their strongest growth segment.
      - 5y ago