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> The issue I have with the JS world is that the most used libraries and frameworks are just "good enough for a small project" and no more than that. Do people

by trimbo 5y ago

> The issue I have with the JS world is that the most used libraries and frameworks are just "good enough for a small project" and no more than that. Do people believe this about Angular? Not primarily a front end dev, but in my limited experience with React and Angular, it seems like Angular's strength is that it provides more structure for scaling to larger projects.

paulirwin 5y ago
Came here to say this. Angular ticks just about every box from the original article. It is opinionated (IMO in a good way, but YMMV), well structured, and batteries are included. You still have the flexibility to do data access, state management, and such however you like but there are well-established patterns and libraries if you want to lean on them. Modules help you scale to larger projects, with fairly painless code splitting / lazy loading. You don't have to set up any complicated build scripts, and the cognitive complexity is low (as long as you don't overuse rxjs) so junior devs can easily jump in. And, Angular is very mature now in 2022, with few-to-no breaking changes between versions. I highly recommend it as the state-of-the-art SPA platform today.
Alex3917 5y ago
Honestly Angular is great even for startups. With the current state of the the framework and the way the Angular CLI bundles code, it's pretty hard to break 90 on PageSpeed Insights (at least without pre-rendering). But it's also not that difficult to get in the high 80s, which is pretty good for a SPA. And it should only be getting more performant as they put more working into optimizing it. It's easy to learn, the code is super clean, TypeScript is great, and imo it generally just makes for a good work environment.
- Oddskar 5y ago
  > And it should only be getting more performant as they put more working into optimizing it. You say this like it's not an 8 year old framework. I wouldn't have such high hopes for it rising significantly.
  - Alex3917 5y ago
    Well there are basically only two things that need to happen: - The number of round trips needed to render a page needs to go from 3 to 2. - The amount of JavaScript in the core framework needs to be slimmed down. The second is already on the roadmap -- they are making Zone.js optional, and supposedly the next version of RxJS is going to be significantly smaller. In order for this to actually happen, Google needs to keep funding the project for at least another full year, which seems likely given how much they depend on it. In terms of the former -- well, it seems increasingly likely that they'll work on adding those kinds of options to the CLI once they get through with the other stuff. And if not, you can alway go back to straight Webpack and just do it yourself. (I personally like the benefits of the CLI and not having to deal with Webpack, but if Webpack keeps improving then who knows, maybe I'll switch back.)

by trimbo 5y ago

paulirwin 5y ago

Came here to say this. Angular ticks just about every box from the original article. It is opinionated (IMO in a good way, but YMMV), well structured, and batteries are included. You still have the flexibility to do data access, state management, and such however you like but there are well-established patterns and libraries if you want to lean on them. Modules help you scale to larger projects, with fairly painless code splitting / lazy loading. You don't have to set up any complicated build scripts, and the cognitive complexity is low (as long as you don't overuse rxjs) so junior devs can easily jump in. And, Angular is very mature now in 2022, with few-to-no breaking changes between versions. I highly recommend it as the state-of-the-art SPA platform today.

Alex3917 5y ago

Honestly Angular is great even for startups. With the current state of the the framework and the way the Angular CLI bundles code, it's pretty hard to break 90 on PageSpeed Insights (at least without pre-rendering). But it's also not that difficult to get in the high 80s, which is pretty good for a SPA. And it should only be getting more performant as they put more working into optimizing it. It's easy to learn, the code is super clean, TypeScript is great, and imo it generally just makes for a good work environment.

Oddskar 5y ago
> And it should only be getting more performant as they put more working into optimizing it. You say this like it's not an 8 year old framework. I wouldn't have such high hopes for it rising significantly.
- Alex3917 5y ago
  Well there are basically only two things that need to happen: - The number of round trips needed to render a page needs to go from 3 to 2. - The amount of JavaScript in the core framework needs to be slimmed down. The second is already on the roadmap -- they are making Zone.js optional, and supposedly the next version of RxJS is going to be significantly smaller. In order for this to actually happen, Google needs to keep funding the project for at least another full year, which seems likely given how much they depend on it. In terms of the former -- well, it seems increasingly likely that they'll work on adding those kinds of options to the CLI once they get through with the other stuff. And if not, you can alway go back to straight Webpack and just do it yourself. (I personally like the benefits of the CLI and not having to deal with Webpack, but if Webpack keeps improving then who knows, maybe I'll switch back.)