6 ms·

It’s getting clearer and clearer that these viruses are extremely bad, see for example https://denovo.substack.com/p/epstein-barr-virus-more-maladies https://de

by yaacov 5y ago

It’s getting clearer and clearer that these viruses are extremely bad, see for example https://denovo.substack.com/p/epstein-barr-virus-more-maladies https://denovo.substack.com/p/epstein-barr-virus-more-maladi...

blix 5y ago
EBV is linked to many, many things. But why does it only have these effects in some people and not others? Why is the prevalance of weird EBV-linked conditions increasing with time? Until these question are answered I don't think it's possible to call it uniquely bad.
- ck2 5y ago
  EBV is typically activated by other stress. Hence "not a problem" for younger, healthier people. Until something unpredictable happens, like covid. One kind of long-covid is activated EBV by covid (there are other kinds). VZV (typo in my earlier post) hides in nerve cells waiting for immune weakness to attack (ie. shingles) Wildly high number of people have it dormant.
  - rkk3 5y ago
    Appendicitis is activated by inflammation and "not a problem" for most people. The Appendix organ hides in the body and waits to become inflamed to attack. It's certainly in the realm of possibility EBV or other viruses have no benefit, but the history of medicine is harmful medical intervention after harmful medical intervention...
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      It's almost certain that EBV has no benefit. We have a nice control group of people without EBV and as far as I'm aware absolutely no benefit is apparent.
      - 331c8c71 5y ago
        The non-carriers are not a control group unless we are 100% sure that the assignment is random. I find it hard to believe when the vast majority of population are carriers.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        It's not random. More developed countries and richer people in more developped countries have a lower incidence rate. The chance of catching it increases with age. The part of the population that doesn't catch it seems to be avoiding it by luck, higher hygiene, and fewer vectors. See: https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/208/8/1286/2192838 https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/208/8/1286/2192838
      - blix 5y ago
        As recently as 15 years ago we were 'almost certain' that the appendix had no function. Oops.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        If a large portion of the population was missing the appendix naturally with no drawback, it would have almost definitely held.
        blix 5y ago
        The first recorded appendectomy is in 1880. Probably the first major study conclusively indicating adverse consequences was published in 2014. It did hold for a long time, until it didn't because we found scientific evidence that said the opposite. Are you really so confident that no such evidence could ever be found for anything else? There is so much we don't know about the human body.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        That's really not it. There is a heavy bias that the appendix is somehow beneficial because we evolved to keep it for some reason (though it could have been just a relic). EBV is a virus. Our immune system does whatever it can to get rid of it. It causes significant illness. There is absolutely no reason to believe it is beneficial whatsoever. If you think it is, you can prove it. We have literally hundreds of millions of people walking around that never got EBV. Go on, and find a statistically significant way in which EBV is beneficial for them. You have the burden of proof here.
    - elevaet 5y ago
      In defence of medicine, its history (of the last 100 years or so anyways) is filled with beneficial intervention after beneficial intervention. Never have humans lived longer and healthier, with such low rates of infant mortality and lack of disease.

by yaacov 5y ago

blix 5y ago

EBV is linked to many, many things. But why does it only have these effects in some people and not others? Why is the prevalance of weird EBV-linked conditions increasing with time? Until these question are answered I don't think it's possible to call it uniquely bad.

ck2 5y ago
EBV is typically activated by other stress. Hence "not a problem" for younger, healthier people. Until something unpredictable happens, like covid. One kind of long-covid is activated EBV by covid (there are other kinds). VZV (typo in my earlier post) hides in nerve cells waiting for immune weakness to attack (ie. shingles) Wildly high number of people have it dormant.
- rkk3 5y ago
  Appendicitis is activated by inflammation and "not a problem" for most people. The Appendix organ hides in the body and waits to become inflamed to attack. It's certainly in the realm of possibility EBV or other viruses have no benefit, but the history of medicine is harmful medical intervention after harmful medical intervention...
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    It's almost certain that EBV has no benefit. We have a nice control group of people without EBV and as far as I'm aware absolutely no benefit is apparent.
    - 331c8c71 5y ago
      The non-carriers are not a control group unless we are 100% sure that the assignment is random. I find it hard to believe when the vast majority of population are carriers.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        It's not random. More developed countries and richer people in more developped countries have a lower incidence rate. The chance of catching it increases with age. The part of the population that doesn't catch it seems to be avoiding it by luck, higher hygiene, and fewer vectors. See: https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/208/8/1286/2192838 https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/208/8/1286/2192838
    - blix 5y ago
      As recently as 15 years ago we were 'almost certain' that the appendix had no function. Oops.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        If a large portion of the population was missing the appendix naturally with no drawback, it would have almost definitely held.
        blix 5y ago
        The first recorded appendectomy is in 1880. Probably the first major study conclusively indicating adverse consequences was published in 2014. It did hold for a long time, until it didn't because we found scientific evidence that said the opposite. Are you really so confident that no such evidence could ever be found for anything else? There is so much we don't know about the human body.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        That's really not it. There is a heavy bias that the appendix is somehow beneficial because we evolved to keep it for some reason (though it could have been just a relic). EBV is a virus. Our immune system does whatever it can to get rid of it. It causes significant illness. There is absolutely no reason to believe it is beneficial whatsoever. If you think it is, you can prove it. We have literally hundreds of millions of people walking around that never got EBV. Go on, and find a statistically significant way in which EBV is beneficial for them. You have the burden of proof here.
  - elevaet 5y ago
    In defence of medicine, its history (of the last 100 years or so anyways) is filled with beneficial intervention after beneficial intervention. Never have humans lived longer and healthier, with such low rates of infant mortality and lack of disease.