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My favorite story about the guy: https://medium.com/@CelikBugra/psychoanalytics-behind-the-cake-mix-life-changing-ideas-e02-412e8d4e54e4 https://medium.com/@Cel

by belval 5y ago

My favorite story about the guy: https://medium.com/@CelikBugra/psychoanalytics-behind-the-cake-mix-life-changing-ideas-e02-412e8d4e54e4 https://medium.com/@CelikBugra/psychoanalytics-behind-the-ca... TLDR: Cake mix was impopular and the Betty Crocker company did not understand why. They went to Bernays who theorized that it was because cake mix was "too easy" leading to housewives feeling guilty that they weren't really contributing anything to the cake. They changed the recipe to include a fresh egg instead of just water and the sales increased substantially.

swayvil 5y ago
Theater is everything, everywhere, all the time. Find out what they really want. To be loved, to be a good person, to be smart, to be successful, to have a bright future... And then tell them a story about how that is exactly how it is. They will buy it. Every time
BitwiseFool 5y ago
In hindsight the solution seems so obvious. I wonder what lead to this insight. Did he get direct feedback, or did he intuit it?
amatic 5y ago
> housewives feeling guilty Or maybe the cake mix with dried egg powder didn't taste as good.
- belval 5y ago
  That's entirely possible, just not how the story goes. When it comes to story in people presented as "marketing geniuses", it's always good to remember that they were probably equally good at selling themselves and their story.
  - smartscience 5y ago
    Obligatory https://xkcd.com/125/ https://xkcd.com/125/
- hnuser847 5y ago
  Yeah, the Freudian explanation for why this worked looks like pseudo-scientific gibberish. > By the Freudian psychology, an unconscious gift from the woman to the husband. The woman offered her eggs and the guilt has just disappeared. Because as stated on changingminds.org, by the Freudian theory, “an egg also has the connotation of life and birth, making the creation of the cake more meaningful - the housewife thus ‘gives birth’ for her husband.”
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    that's because it is psuedo-scientific gibberish
  - swayvil 5y ago
    It's the science of marketing aka population-scale mindfuckery. It's a solid science. It works. It rules the world. And you, yes you, are clutched within its iron claw, oblivious.
    - sumtechguy 5y ago
      The 3 step method they use works shockingly well. Build a problem (not associated to your product/idea). If you can tie it to some sort of base emotion all the better. Sell what does fix it (happens to be a product/idea you have but still not associated to you). Sell your product/idea and show how the experts know your product/idea is the best. When it works it is quite stunning, and many have no idea it was even done to them.
      - swayvil 5y ago
        There's this stuff called "Ovaltine". It's like chocolate milk powder They offered it as a solution to that great national scourge, "children chewing without swallowing" (Cue video of callow youth. Food hanging out of his greasy mouth) Then they cite doctors telling us how Ovaltine is totally necessary for good health. Ya, your 3step program
        deleted 5y ago
- brimble 5y ago
  Yeah... one reason I don't use cake mix because by the time you have to have do the egg part yourself, you may as well just mix the rest too. Everything's a totally normal ingredient any minimally-stocked kitchen will have—which, the egg is too, but it's the messiest/fiddliest ingredient involved (not saying it's rocket science to crack a damn egg, but everything else is easier and less error-prone). I might use it, sometimes, if it eliminated the egg step but still tasted good. I suspect it tasted like crap. [EDIT] Should have written, the messiest and fiddliest ingredient necessarily involved. Chocolate can be much, much worse if you're melting bars rather than using powder, as can some other things that may be in a cake.
- swayvil 5y ago
  That is a concise and logical explanation, consistent with the popular narrative and affirms the agency of the common housewife. Smartly done!
- gist 5y ago
  > Or maybe the cake mix with dried egg powder didn't taste as good. It's not one or the other and can easily be both reasons.
andrei_says_ 5y ago
This is taken almost verbatim from Century of the Self. The full documentary is free on YouTube and worth the time.
Psyonic 5y ago
I am very suspicious this is a Just-So story. This BBC article seems to agree (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20171027-the-magic-cakes-that-come-from-a-packet https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20171027-the-magic-cakes-...). Also interestingly credits the marketing aspect to Ernest Dichter instead of Bernays. Quote: In later years, many would portray this as a pivotal moment in the history of cake mixes, the inflection point of a dramatic upward curve. The truth is, though, that the cake companies already knew about the egg problem. In fact, as early as 1933 Duff had introduced a mix that had bakers add eggs themselves. “The housewife and the purchasing public in general seem to prefer fresh eggs and hence the use of dried or powdered eggs is somewhat of a handicap from a psychological standpoint,” reads the patent application (read more on Duff's cake patents in this lovely Bon Appetit story about cake mix). And actually, the mixes worked better that way. “The fact was one of the reasons cake mixes didn't taste good was they tasted like dried eggs,” says Shapiro. The companies performed surveys and asked women which version they would buy – the results were contradictory – and in the end, they just did as they pleased.

by belval 5y ago

swayvil 5y ago

Theater is everything, everywhere, all the time. Find out what they really want. To be loved, to be a good person, to be smart, to be successful, to have a bright future... And then tell them a story about how that is exactly how it is. They will buy it. Every time

BitwiseFool 5y ago

In hindsight the solution seems so obvious. I wonder what lead to this insight. Did he get direct feedback, or did he intuit it?

amatic 5y ago

> housewives feeling guilty Or maybe the cake mix with dried egg powder didn't taste as good.

belval 5y ago
That's entirely possible, just not how the story goes. When it comes to story in people presented as "marketing geniuses", it's always good to remember that they were probably equally good at selling themselves and their story.
- smartscience 5y ago
  Obligatory https://xkcd.com/125/ https://xkcd.com/125/
hnuser847 5y ago
Yeah, the Freudian explanation for why this worked looks like pseudo-scientific gibberish. > By the Freudian psychology, an unconscious gift from the woman to the husband. The woman offered her eggs and the guilt has just disappeared. Because as stated on changingminds.org, by the Freudian theory, “an egg also has the connotation of life and birth, making the creation of the cake more meaningful - the housewife thus ‘gives birth’ for her husband.”
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  that's because it is psuedo-scientific gibberish
- swayvil 5y ago
  It's the science of marketing aka population-scale mindfuckery. It's a solid science. It works. It rules the world. And you, yes you, are clutched within its iron claw, oblivious.
  - sumtechguy 5y ago
    The 3 step method they use works shockingly well. Build a problem (not associated to your product/idea). If you can tie it to some sort of base emotion all the better. Sell what does fix it (happens to be a product/idea you have but still not associated to you). Sell your product/idea and show how the experts know your product/idea is the best. When it works it is quite stunning, and many have no idea it was even done to them.
    - swayvil 5y ago
      There's this stuff called "Ovaltine". It's like chocolate milk powder They offered it as a solution to that great national scourge, "children chewing without swallowing" (Cue video of callow youth. Food hanging out of his greasy mouth) Then they cite doctors telling us how Ovaltine is totally necessary for good health. Ya, your 3step program
      - deleted 5y ago
brimble 5y ago
Yeah... one reason I don't use cake mix because by the time you have to have do the egg part yourself, you may as well just mix the rest too. Everything's a totally normal ingredient any minimally-stocked kitchen will have—which, the egg is too, but it's the messiest/fiddliest ingredient involved (not saying it's rocket science to crack a damn egg, but everything else is easier and less error-prone). I might use it, sometimes, if it eliminated the egg step but still tasted good. I suspect it tasted like crap. [EDIT] Should have written, the messiest and fiddliest ingredient necessarily involved. Chocolate can be much, much worse if you're melting bars rather than using powder, as can some other things that may be in a cake.
swayvil 5y ago
That is a concise and logical explanation, consistent with the popular narrative and affirms the agency of the common housewife. Smartly done!
gist 5y ago
> Or maybe the cake mix with dried egg powder didn't taste as good. It's not one or the other and can easily be both reasons.

andrei_says_ 5y ago

This is taken almost verbatim from Century of the Self. The full documentary is free on YouTube and worth the time.

Psyonic 5y ago

I am very suspicious this is a Just-So story. This BBC article seems to agree (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20171027-the-magic-cakes-that-come-from-a-packet https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20171027-the-magic-cakes-...). Also interestingly credits the marketing aspect to Ernest Dichter instead of Bernays. Quote: In later years, many would portray this as a pivotal moment in the history of cake mixes, the inflection point of a dramatic upward curve. The truth is, though, that the cake companies already knew about the egg problem. In fact, as early as 1933 Duff had introduced a mix that had bakers add eggs themselves. “The housewife and the purchasing public in general seem to prefer fresh eggs and hence the use of dried or powdered eggs is somewhat of a handicap from a psychological standpoint,” reads the patent application (read more on Duff's cake patents in this lovely Bon Appetit story about cake mix). And actually, the mixes worked better that way. “The fact was one of the reasons cake mixes didn't taste good was they tasted like dried eggs,” says Shapiro. The companies performed surveys and asked women which version they would buy – the results were contradictory – and in the end, they just did as they pleased.