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The interesting bit is not the sensory input. We mostly know how the sensors work and how they are triggered. The fun question is, what exactly is connected to

The interesting bit is not the sensory input. We mostly know how the sensors work and how they are triggered. The fun question is, what exactly is connected to those sensors and experiences them and where is the location of that thing? It's like we're sitting with a VR headset in our brain, playing that game we call life. But, where exactly are we and how is that headset connected to our sensors?

guerrilla 5y ago
> The fun question is, what exactly is connected to those sensors and experiences them and where is the location of that thing? Again, your body. Think about it. Your body is experiencing what your brain has generated out of your sensory input. You don't need a homunculus, you are a body. You are your body and there's nothing else to you.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  For me it's worse. I don't think theres any reason to identify my perspective with any homunculus. It's watching somebody play a game, not playing it. My question is this: I "know" there are a lot of games being played - why am I watching this one?
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    It's the one your body generated. Your body took all its data, generated your mind out of that and experiences your mind. For anything else to happen, you'd have to pipe the signal of your mind (that your body generated) into someone else's brain. It's like you're asking why is this computer that I generated this data visualization from this data on this computer displaying this data visualization on this computer. Umm, because that's what you asked it to do and that's the default? For anything else to have happened, you would have had to redirect the output to a network and then go receive it on a different computer.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      What does it mean for a body to be "mine?" As a materialist, I accept that my body is an assemblage of physical influences. I have no reason to doubt that it has as much self-control as water flowing down a hill. So - does water flowing down a hill have a perspective? Where is it located? It doesn't have a nervous system to blame things on. Is it infinitely divisible? Is it distinct from me? If I pour water from one cup into another, can I say that I'm any less the water as I am my hands, even though I'm controlling the water, getting feedback from the water, subjecting the water as much to my nervous system as I am subjecting my hand itself? What about when I shake your hand? What if I'm blind and I ask you what you can see, then react based on that?
      - guerrilla 5y ago
        Don't gish gallop. > What does it mean for a body to be "mine?" You are your body. > So - does water flowing down a hill have a perspective? Where is it located? Why would it? Does it sense and produce a mind? Not that I'm aware of. You could go the pansychism route if you want though. See David Chalmers or something. > can I say that I'm any less the water as I am my hands, even though I'm controlling the water, getting feedback from the water, subjecting the water as much to my nervous system as I am subjecting my hand itself? According to enactivism, no. [1] In general, see embodied minds theory. [2] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enactivism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enactivism 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embodied_cognition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embodied_cognition
        pessimizer 5y ago
        I'm not intending to. I wasn't proposing all of that as separable questions. I was proposing it as a series of statements that I have no material means to say anything about. > Why would it? Does it sense and produce a mind? I don't know what a mind is supposed to be in this context, or its importance. I don't identify my perspective with my thoughts. My thoughts are something a body does. My perspective is just my location. After death, my thoughts will cease. My location will not change.

guerrilla 5y ago

> The fun question is, what exactly is connected to those sensors and experiences them and where is the location of that thing? Again, your body. Think about it. Your body is experiencing what your brain has generated out of your sensory input. You don't need a homunculus, you are a body. You are your body and there's nothing else to you.

pessimizer 5y ago
For me it's worse. I don't think theres any reason to identify my perspective with any homunculus. It's watching somebody play a game, not playing it. My question is this: I "know" there are a lot of games being played - why am I watching this one?
- guerrilla 5y ago
  It's the one your body generated. Your body took all its data, generated your mind out of that and experiences your mind. For anything else to happen, you'd have to pipe the signal of your mind (that your body generated) into someone else's brain. It's like you're asking why is this computer that I generated this data visualization from this data on this computer displaying this data visualization on this computer. Umm, because that's what you asked it to do and that's the default? For anything else to have happened, you would have had to redirect the output to a network and then go receive it on a different computer.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    What does it mean for a body to be "mine?" As a materialist, I accept that my body is an assemblage of physical influences. I have no reason to doubt that it has as much self-control as water flowing down a hill. So - does water flowing down a hill have a perspective? Where is it located? It doesn't have a nervous system to blame things on. Is it infinitely divisible? Is it distinct from me? If I pour water from one cup into another, can I say that I'm any less the water as I am my hands, even though I'm controlling the water, getting feedback from the water, subjecting the water as much to my nervous system as I am subjecting my hand itself? What about when I shake your hand? What if I'm blind and I ask you what you can see, then react based on that?
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      Don't gish gallop. > What does it mean for a body to be "mine?" You are your body. > So - does water flowing down a hill have a perspective? Where is it located? Why would it? Does it sense and produce a mind? Not that I'm aware of. You could go the pansychism route if you want though. See David Chalmers or something. > can I say that I'm any less the water as I am my hands, even though I'm controlling the water, getting feedback from the water, subjecting the water as much to my nervous system as I am subjecting my hand itself? According to enactivism, no. [1] In general, see embodied minds theory. [2] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enactivism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enactivism 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embodied_cognition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embodied_cognition
      - pessimizer 5y ago
        I'm not intending to. I wasn't proposing all of that as separable questions. I was proposing it as a series of statements that I have no material means to say anything about. > Why would it? Does it sense and produce a mind? I don't know what a mind is supposed to be in this context, or its importance. I don't identify my perspective with my thoughts. My thoughts are something a body does. My perspective is just my location. After death, my thoughts will cease. My location will not change.