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Bitcoin does. The math is simple. No government in the world can debase the value of Bitcoin whose total supply is < 21 million and no central bank can print mo

by lowkey 5y ago

Bitcoin does. The math is simple. No government in the world can debase the value of Bitcoin whose total supply is < 21 million and no central bank can print more.

mtoner23 5y ago
Sure they can, they could ban its use, if the US banned using bitcoin im confident its value would drop
- lowkey 5y ago
  Agree if the US banned Bitcoin the USD price would drop - in the short-term. However, it is impossible for any government to kill Bitcoin by outlawing it. The best they could hope for is to prevent their citizens from participating in the global Bitcoin network. When you consider it’s scarcity, security and censorship-resistance properties, it is clear why game theory suggests that so long as some governments have not banned Bitcoin - the value will migrate away from those countries towards countries that allow it. Similarly, when the US gov banned alcohol in prohibition, it did not eliminate demand for booze. It just moved the market underground.
  - mtoner23 5y ago
    certainly it wouldn't actually be banned. but price would drop for sure. governments still have power even over "decentralized" stuff
root_axis 5y ago
> No government in the world can debase the value of Bitcoin A government can't, but a cartel of miners can and they do every time they mint bitcoins via mining rewards and they won't stop at 21 million.
- lowkey 5y ago
  The Bitcoin network is not controlled by the miners. This was proven a few years ago when the CEOs of the largest miners and the largest exchanges all tried to increase the blocksize. They were thwarted by individual users who run nodes on the network. Those running nodes are the ones who broadcast valid transactions. If any or many of the miners decided to unilaterally change any parameter of the Bitcon blockchain, their blocks would be considered invalid by the network and would not propagate. They would be considered counterfeit and ignored by all Bitcoin clients and nodes. Case studies include BCH and BSV. If you are genuinely curious about the mechanics do some research to understand why no miner in the past 12 years has successfully modified any parameter of the Bitcoin network.
ryan_lane 5y ago
Since the value of bitcoin is based on fiat, it's relatively easy for the government to debase it. By banning the conversion of fiat to bitcoin, it removes the value. You can still pass coins around on the bitcoin network, but if no one accepts them, and you can't turn them into usable currency, then what's the value?
- lowkey 5y ago
  Governments have banned alcohol, heroine, cocaine, and other illicit drugs yet somehow a market always continues to exist despite being banned. In the case of the above banned substances, the market value of the contraband ended up being higher than it would have been if it were legal due to constrained supply relative to demand. Also, unlike cryptocurrencies, none of the other contraband could be stored on a password that could be memorized or transmitted to anyone anywhere in the world. If governments banned Bitcoin, the market price of Bitcoin could very well go up over time not down after the initial shock.
  - ryan_lane 5y ago
    Markets for those exist because people use those things. Bitcoin is used as a speculation device, that's converted back into fiat, not as a thing by itself. The government won't ban the use of bitcoin, it'll ban the legal on-ramps and off-ramps for converting between cryptocurrencies and fiat. The value of cryptocurrencies is based on hype. When most people can't legally invest, the liquidity will dry up and the price will plummet. That'll lead to less hype, which will lead to lower interest, and so on. Most likely, the bubble will burst, normal people will lose lots of money, the rich will make a lot of money, and the government will regulate cryptocurrency.
- csomar 5y ago
  It's already semi-banned for bank-to-crypto and crypto-to-bank transactions. P2P transactions are unstoppable. You are confusing the government to god.

by lowkey 5y ago

Bitcoin does. The math is simple. No government in the world can debase the value of Bitcoin whose total supply is < 21 million and no central bank can print more.

mtoner23 5y ago

Sure they can, they could ban its use, if the US banned using bitcoin im confident its value would drop

lowkey 5y ago
Agree if the US banned Bitcoin the USD price would drop - in the short-term. However, it is impossible for any government to kill Bitcoin by outlawing it. The best they could hope for is to prevent their citizens from participating in the global Bitcoin network. When you consider it’s scarcity, security and censorship-resistance properties, it is clear why game theory suggests that so long as some governments have not banned Bitcoin - the value will migrate away from those countries towards countries that allow it. Similarly, when the US gov banned alcohol in prohibition, it did not eliminate demand for booze. It just moved the market underground.
- mtoner23 5y ago
  certainly it wouldn't actually be banned. but price would drop for sure. governments still have power even over "decentralized" stuff

root_axis 5y ago

> No government in the world can debase the value of Bitcoin A government can't, but a cartel of miners can and they do every time they mint bitcoins via mining rewards and they won't stop at 21 million.

lowkey 5y ago
The Bitcoin network is not controlled by the miners. This was proven a few years ago when the CEOs of the largest miners and the largest exchanges all tried to increase the blocksize. They were thwarted by individual users who run nodes on the network. Those running nodes are the ones who broadcast valid transactions. If any or many of the miners decided to unilaterally change any parameter of the Bitcon blockchain, their blocks would be considered invalid by the network and would not propagate. They would be considered counterfeit and ignored by all Bitcoin clients and nodes. Case studies include BCH and BSV. If you are genuinely curious about the mechanics do some research to understand why no miner in the past 12 years has successfully modified any parameter of the Bitcoin network.

ryan_lane 5y ago

Since the value of bitcoin is based on fiat, it's relatively easy for the government to debase it. By banning the conversion of fiat to bitcoin, it removes the value. You can still pass coins around on the bitcoin network, but if no one accepts them, and you can't turn them into usable currency, then what's the value?

lowkey 5y ago
Governments have banned alcohol, heroine, cocaine, and other illicit drugs yet somehow a market always continues to exist despite being banned. In the case of the above banned substances, the market value of the contraband ended up being higher than it would have been if it were legal due to constrained supply relative to demand. Also, unlike cryptocurrencies, none of the other contraband could be stored on a password that could be memorized or transmitted to anyone anywhere in the world. If governments banned Bitcoin, the market price of Bitcoin could very well go up over time not down after the initial shock.
- ryan_lane 5y ago
  Markets for those exist because people use those things. Bitcoin is used as a speculation device, that's converted back into fiat, not as a thing by itself. The government won't ban the use of bitcoin, it'll ban the legal on-ramps and off-ramps for converting between cryptocurrencies and fiat. The value of cryptocurrencies is based on hype. When most people can't legally invest, the liquidity will dry up and the price will plummet. That'll lead to less hype, which will lead to lower interest, and so on. Most likely, the bubble will burst, normal people will lose lots of money, the rich will make a lot of money, and the government will regulate cryptocurrency.
csomar 5y ago
It's already semi-banned for bank-to-crypto and crypto-to-bank transactions. P2P transactions are unstoppable. You are confusing the government to god.