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I'm fairly sure we are due a political swing back towards the left in the UK, and my expectation is we are going to see increased calls for the re-nationalisati

I'm fairly sure we are due a political swing back towards the left in the UK, and my expectation is we are going to see increased calls for the re-nationalisation of various national infrastructure and services, including energy supply. As the article says at the end, clearly the Torys are not going to do this, and Labour will be very quiet about this as they need to play the middle ground if they have any chance of gaining a majority. But, if they were to win in the next general election we will see increased calls for them to act on the aspirations of the left of the party to nationalise these things. It will be an interesting time.

ealexhudson 5y ago
The Tories have renationalised many of the train companies, and are currently toying with nationalising the General Practice (GP) service in the UK - which most of the public would not realise was private sector (albeit GPs have strict rules against private practice, unlike dentists). There are some obvious reasons to want to renationalise critical infrastructure like water and power, particularly given the absolutely piss-poor job done by the private contractors. And in many areas - like the trains - the "private enterprises" running the services turn out to be commercial arms of other European public sector bodies anyway, and are not private sector in any meaningful sense. I don't think this is Left vs Right any more. If the Tories want red-wall voters and broad appeal, they have to move a lot more than Labour needs to stay in the middle ground. Left vs Right does not capture the complexity of what's happening here.
- samwillis 5y ago
  Quite true, although I wouldn't say that they nationalist the train companies willingly or that it was planned, it was a result of them going bust.
  - ealexhudson 5y ago
    Mostly agreed - they went bust and/or withdrew from contracts, and yes pandemic was an issue, but these companies were also getting huge amounts of public money (Gov was typically buying the trains), and the infrastructure/rail element has been properly nationalised for a few years now. The idea that competition can have any real meaning on a highly constrained and contended single resource - like railways - is a bit laughable, so the market doesn't really offer much opportunity for optimization. Equally though, the old British Rail was nothing to get excited about. We just don't seem to have a decent economic model for running loss-making services with positive general externalities for the benefit of society.
    - lbriner 5y ago
      The private model does work elsewhere in the world but I'm not sure whether we completely understand the differences and what makes these other countries work so well. On the other hand, we tend to have rose-tinted memories of how cheap everything was in the old days, which I don't think is true. For the level of subsidy that our railways have, they are probably not actually that bad. Many people have said before that even places like France might do well on the high speed lines but their secondary routes can be as rough as ours and they get much more investment.
    - pydry 5y ago
      >The idea that competition can have any real meaning on a highly constrained and contended single resource - like railways - is a bit laughable, so the market doesn't really offer much opportunity for optimization Of course not. The Tories always meant for it to be a vehicle through which they and their mates could extract rents. That's always the point of privatization.
- arethuza 5y ago
  Worth noting that water in Scotland was never privatised - domestic properties pay for it (and waster water treatment) by fixed charges linked to council tax band: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Water "Scottish Water has been ranked the best UK water company and utility for customer service"
  - smackay 5y ago
    After the ScotWind giveaway, it's widely expected that water will be next.
drcongo 5y ago
I hope you're right, but the current Labour Party are more right wing than the party has ever been, indeed right of the tory party of 15 to 20 years ago, and they've been purging the left since Starmer took over. I think we've missed our chance to take these things back into public ownership. The British political system incentivises short-termism - our politicians largely see no point in implementing a policy that will benefit the entire country in 10 years time when someone else may be in charge, hence the sell-off in the first place. In an ideal world we'd have gone the same route as Norway [0], and could possibly have still done so if Corbyn had won. Now though, that ship has sailed and we've sold short-term selfish thinking to the public, have a "left" party that is almost indistinguishable from the right, and all of them are pushing populism above all else. [0] https://www.lovemoney.com/news/85476/norway-oil-reserves-norges-investment-fund-returns-strategy https://www.lovemoney.com/news/85476/norway-oil-reserves-nor...
- JacobThreeThree 5y ago
  >the current Labour Party are more right wing than the party has ever been What would be the top few policy positions that make Labour right wing in your opinion?
  - drcongo 5y ago
    Not sure if you're trolling or not, but it's hard to say really, given that their current stance is to just agree with tory policies and not really have any of their own. It's more the fact that any socialist policies they did have prior to Starmer have gone.
    - flooow 5y ago
      Pretty obvious what the scam is here. Starmer lied to the membership to become leader, has ruthlessly purged the left including the former leader, and now plans to sit tight doing and saying nothing, hoping the Tories self-destruct as they occasionally are want to. Meanwhile Labour will suck-up to the right-wing press in the hope that Murdoch et al will decide not to destroy them on a whim as they did the previous iteration, enough to sneak the next election. Net result, the 40% of the population who voted for a left-wing party in 2017 will have no representation for the next decade minimum. Again. Great democracy we have, brilliant stuff. Signed, extremely bitter former Labour member.
switch007 5y ago
Whatever Labour do, they’ll be raked over hot coals for the mess the Tories leave them and be hamstrung. Then Tories will be back in power shortly after. That’s their usual play. It’s frustrating as hell
7952 5y ago
The energy sector is already dominated by the government. They set the market, set regulations, and determine if new power stations can be built. For offshore wind they own the seabed and give development rights. Any nationalisation would still have to depend on the same kind of expertise that already exists in the industry. They could how new developments are financed and use national debt. But beyond that I am not sure it would actually make much difference.

ealexhudson 5y ago

The Tories have renationalised many of the train companies, and are currently toying with nationalising the General Practice (GP) service in the UK - which most of the public would not realise was private sector (albeit GPs have strict rules against private practice, unlike dentists). There are some obvious reasons to want to renationalise critical infrastructure like water and power, particularly given the absolutely piss-poor job done by the private contractors. And in many areas - like the trains - the "private enterprises" running the services turn out to be commercial arms of other European public sector bodies anyway, and are not private sector in any meaningful sense. I don't think this is Left vs Right any more. If the Tories want red-wall voters and broad appeal, they have to move a lot more than Labour needs to stay in the middle ground. Left vs Right does not capture the complexity of what's happening here.

samwillis 5y ago
Quite true, although I wouldn't say that they nationalist the train companies willingly or that it was planned, it was a result of them going bust.
- ealexhudson 5y ago
  Mostly agreed - they went bust and/or withdrew from contracts, and yes pandemic was an issue, but these companies were also getting huge amounts of public money (Gov was typically buying the trains), and the infrastructure/rail element has been properly nationalised for a few years now. The idea that competition can have any real meaning on a highly constrained and contended single resource - like railways - is a bit laughable, so the market doesn't really offer much opportunity for optimization. Equally though, the old British Rail was nothing to get excited about. We just don't seem to have a decent economic model for running loss-making services with positive general externalities for the benefit of society.
  - lbriner 5y ago
    The private model does work elsewhere in the world but I'm not sure whether we completely understand the differences and what makes these other countries work so well. On the other hand, we tend to have rose-tinted memories of how cheap everything was in the old days, which I don't think is true. For the level of subsidy that our railways have, they are probably not actually that bad. Many people have said before that even places like France might do well on the high speed lines but their secondary routes can be as rough as ours and they get much more investment.
  - pydry 5y ago
    >The idea that competition can have any real meaning on a highly constrained and contended single resource - like railways - is a bit laughable, so the market doesn't really offer much opportunity for optimization Of course not. The Tories always meant for it to be a vehicle through which they and their mates could extract rents. That's always the point of privatization.
arethuza 5y ago
Worth noting that water in Scotland was never privatised - domestic properties pay for it (and waster water treatment) by fixed charges linked to council tax band: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Water "Scottish Water has been ranked the best UK water company and utility for customer service"
- smackay 5y ago
  After the ScotWind giveaway, it's widely expected that water will be next.

drcongo 5y ago

I hope you're right, but the current Labour Party are more right wing than the party has ever been, indeed right of the tory party of 15 to 20 years ago, and they've been purging the left since Starmer took over. I think we've missed our chance to take these things back into public ownership. The British political system incentivises short-termism - our politicians largely see no point in implementing a policy that will benefit the entire country in 10 years time when someone else may be in charge, hence the sell-off in the first place. In an ideal world we'd have gone the same route as Norway [0], and could possibly have still done so if Corbyn had won. Now though, that ship has sailed and we've sold short-term selfish thinking to the public, have a "left" party that is almost indistinguishable from the right, and all of them are pushing populism above all else. [0] https://www.lovemoney.com/news/85476/norway-oil-reserves-norges-investment-fund-returns-strategy https://www.lovemoney.com/news/85476/norway-oil-reserves-nor...

JacobThreeThree 5y ago
>the current Labour Party are more right wing than the party has ever been What would be the top few policy positions that make Labour right wing in your opinion?
- drcongo 5y ago
  Not sure if you're trolling or not, but it's hard to say really, given that their current stance is to just agree with tory policies and not really have any of their own. It's more the fact that any socialist policies they did have prior to Starmer have gone.
  - flooow 5y ago
    Pretty obvious what the scam is here. Starmer lied to the membership to become leader, has ruthlessly purged the left including the former leader, and now plans to sit tight doing and saying nothing, hoping the Tories self-destruct as they occasionally are want to. Meanwhile Labour will suck-up to the right-wing press in the hope that Murdoch et al will decide not to destroy them on a whim as they did the previous iteration, enough to sneak the next election. Net result, the 40% of the population who voted for a left-wing party in 2017 will have no representation for the next decade minimum. Again. Great democracy we have, brilliant stuff. Signed, extremely bitter former Labour member.

switch007 5y ago

Whatever Labour do, they’ll be raked over hot coals for the mess the Tories leave them and be hamstrung. Then Tories will be back in power shortly after. That’s their usual play. It’s frustrating as hell

7952 5y ago

The energy sector is already dominated by the government. They set the market, set regulations, and determine if new power stations can be built. For offshore wind they own the seabed and give development rights. Any nationalisation would still have to depend on the same kind of expertise that already exists in the industry. They could how new developments are financed and use national debt. But beyond that I am not sure it would actually make much difference.