4 ms·

Just in that list of commands, there are a dozen different pieces of software that a user has to trust not to steal their keys or make some sort of error. I hav

Just in that list of commands, there are a dozen different pieces of software that a user has to trust not to steal their keys or make some sort of error. I have more faith in the legal system than software I haven't personally audited. So now I have to audit whatever btchip_setup is, ndeftool, and a bunch of other software if I really want technical security. Oh, and if I really want to do it right, I've got to audit the chip designs and inspect the chips to make sure they are to spec and don't have secret cred-stealing hardware. Then you have to trust the hardware storing the data not to fail. But every physical storage medium will fail eventually, so now you need a system by which you create backups and test your backups. And now you have to secure your backups separate in case of fire or technical theft too. It starts to become a part time job very quickly...

lrvick 5y ago
The end result is storing 24 english words. You can store them on paper, on a CD, an NFC tag, a stone tablet. Storing words long term is a well understood problem. Do not trust any or this software to generate those words truly randomly? No problem. Use bip39 diceware to literally generate your words with dice. When it comes to not trusting software to convert those words to a keypair deterministically, use NASA dual path tactics. Use two unrelated software suites to convert those words to keypairs and sign a transaction and ensure the final signed payload output from both unrelated toolchains is identical. Bip39 has been implemented in many programming languages. Now you can form strong confidence in your entire supply chain from key generation entropy to a final transaction with perhaps a couple hours of effort. If you are moving millions in value and worried about supply chain attacks the extra effort may be worth it. For most a Trezor or a Ledger used as the instructions that come with it advise will be in fine shape.
- grumple 5y ago
  How many people on earth would even understand what you just said? It's limited to a (probably small) subset of software experts. For the vast majority of people it's basically "trust the shady nerds and the VCs backing them".
  - lrvick 5y ago
    I have taught dozens of companies and hundreds of people these tactics. That said only people that need to understand tactics this strict are those storing VC levels of value. For an individual just buy a Trezor or a Ledger and follow the point and click instructions. It is no harder than traditional online banking.

lrvick 5y ago

The end result is storing 24 english words. You can store them on paper, on a CD, an NFC tag, a stone tablet. Storing words long term is a well understood problem. Do not trust any or this software to generate those words truly randomly? No problem. Use bip39 diceware to literally generate your words with dice. When it comes to not trusting software to convert those words to a keypair deterministically, use NASA dual path tactics. Use two unrelated software suites to convert those words to keypairs and sign a transaction and ensure the final signed payload output from both unrelated toolchains is identical. Bip39 has been implemented in many programming languages. Now you can form strong confidence in your entire supply chain from key generation entropy to a final transaction with perhaps a couple hours of effort. If you are moving millions in value and worried about supply chain attacks the extra effort may be worth it. For most a Trezor or a Ledger used as the instructions that come with it advise will be in fine shape.

grumple 5y ago
How many people on earth would even understand what you just said? It's limited to a (probably small) subset of software experts. For the vast majority of people it's basically "trust the shady nerds and the VCs backing them".
- lrvick 5y ago
  I have taught dozens of companies and hundreds of people these tactics. That said only people that need to understand tactics this strict are those storing VC levels of value. For an individual just buy a Trezor or a Ledger and follow the point and click instructions. It is no harder than traditional online banking.