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> But remember to reduce your personal carbon footprint! /s Where do you think the demand for gas pipelines comes from? Spoilers: our collective desire for it

> But remember to reduce your personal carbon footprint! /s Where do you think the demand for gas pipelines comes from? Spoilers: our collective desire for it drives the development of pipelines.

tremon 5y ago
"We" do not demand leaky pipelines.
- friedturkey 5y ago
  But people sure do want cheap fuel and electricity. Cheapness comes at a cost, and people consistently choose the cheapest providers when given a choice. Absolving ourselves is responsibility is why progress has stalled for decades.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Which is why the leakers should be financially punished so that they are no longer cheap. If their prices are so cheap they are unable to afford basic mantainence or quality builds, then a) maybe pay the C-suite people a little less (they can't afford it), b) they are not charging enough to actually run a business.
  - themaninthedark 5y ago
    People want cheap everything. They also want clean water and air, that is why they vote for people who enact regulations. Take software for example, people want cheap software. Paid software declines vs software with ads or tracking in it. People are upset because they don't want ads and tracking. Maybe regulations are enacted and paid software comes back. Maybe it moves to a different model.
seanp2k2 5y ago
It’s not as if PG&E has a checkbox like “Pay 5% more for us to fix gas leaks?” or gas stations have an octane selection that pollutes less. Consumers have the choice in some cases to consume less, but we need to affect one very specific thing (better maintenance) that companies with lower demand would, I’m sure, be happy to just pocket in additional savings or profit if they don’t have a damn good incentive to care. Then on a political level, at least here in the US, the choice for politicians who could hope to influence this is between a party of “we don’t believe climate change is real // it’s real but not a big deal // inevitable / natural causes” and “climate change is real but we still won’t make much real change” or maybe even “climate change is real and we demand real change but Congress won’t pass anything even mildly changing the calculus for companies because 49% is the party who doesn’t care / is on the climate-affecting companies payroll and the other 1% required to swing the vote can be bought for 1/100th the price the proposed legislation would cost us”. It’s frustrating, and the result is that the world burns and everyone just argues about whose fault it is while trying to do any small things they can to help while companies and politicians continue to not really care that we’re rapidly heading towards a non-inhabitable planet in a few generations.
- friedturkey 5y ago
  Many places let you choose your energy provider. People choose the cheapest ones. So yes, they're at fault. It's like crying about slaves making chocolate but paying for the cheapest chocolate bar instead of opting for more expensive ones that verify their supply chain. Talk is cheap.

> But remember to reduce your personal carbon footprint! /s Where do you think the demand for gas pipelines comes from? Spoilers: our collective desire for it drives the development of pipelines.

tremon 5y ago

"We" do not demand leaky pipelines.

friedturkey 5y ago
But people sure do want cheap fuel and electricity. Cheapness comes at a cost, and people consistently choose the cheapest providers when given a choice. Absolving ourselves is responsibility is why progress has stalled for decades.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Which is why the leakers should be financially punished so that they are no longer cheap. If their prices are so cheap they are unable to afford basic mantainence or quality builds, then a) maybe pay the C-suite people a little less (they can't afford it), b) they are not charging enough to actually run a business.
- themaninthedark 5y ago
  People want cheap everything. They also want clean water and air, that is why they vote for people who enact regulations. Take software for example, people want cheap software. Paid software declines vs software with ads or tracking in it. People are upset because they don't want ads and tracking. Maybe regulations are enacted and paid software comes back. Maybe it moves to a different model.

seanp2k2 5y ago

It’s not as if PG&E has a checkbox like “Pay 5% more for us to fix gas leaks?” or gas stations have an octane selection that pollutes less. Consumers have the choice in some cases to consume less, but we need to affect one very specific thing (better maintenance) that companies with lower demand would, I’m sure, be happy to just pocket in additional savings or profit if they don’t have a damn good incentive to care. Then on a political level, at least here in the US, the choice for politicians who could hope to influence this is between a party of “we don’t believe climate change is real // it’s real but not a big deal // inevitable / natural causes” and “climate change is real but we still won’t make much real change” or maybe even “climate change is real and we demand real change but Congress won’t pass anything even mildly changing the calculus for companies because 49% is the party who doesn’t care / is on the climate-affecting companies payroll and the other 1% required to swing the vote can be bought for 1/100th the price the proposed legislation would cost us”. It’s frustrating, and the result is that the world burns and everyone just argues about whose fault it is while trying to do any small things they can to help while companies and politicians continue to not really care that we’re rapidly heading towards a non-inhabitable planet in a few generations.

friedturkey 5y ago
Many places let you choose your energy provider. People choose the cheapest ones. So yes, they're at fault. It's like crying about slaves making chocolate but paying for the cheapest chocolate bar instead of opting for more expensive ones that verify their supply chain. Talk is cheap.