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Wow that is a well researched position, thanks for sharing. First of all I do think think all confederate flags should be retired. The confederate flags represe

Wow that is a well researched position, thanks for sharing. First of all I do think think all confederate flags should be retired. The confederate flags represent an enemy the US defeated. No American should feel pride about those flags. However, you’ve provided image links with no context but your own. I am not sure what any of those images represented back in the time. I’m also having a hard time finding information to support your position. Additionally, the Alabama link looks like a bush maybe? Definitely do not see the Gadsden iconography, but maybe it’s just a bad scan. I will say the Battle Hymn link is tenuous at best. The timber rattle snake on the flag is representative of the original rebellious 13 colonies (on the wiki if you want to read more). The rattlers are really only dangerous if stepped on, hence the phrase on the flag. In the hymn, “Crushing the snake under heal” has religious background, and represents extinguishing evil. To me the flag represents that the people of this country have the right to oppose the government. That is a fundamental ideal in the US. In that context, it makes sense why some extreme fringe groups would co-opt the flag when opposing the government. However, that does not mean the flag represents extremist views to the vast majority of people who like to fly it. Finally, my original comment said it was disingenuous to associate the two so closely like you did. At least say “and” instead of “/“. Someone not so familiar might assume they are literally the same thing.

mikeyouse 5y ago
The South co-opted the flag as a similar symbol of "opposing the government" like the Revolutionaries had, but in their case it was to oppose the abolition of slavery. Here's a better pic of the Alabama flag -- it's a cotton plant with a snake under it and the phrase "noli me tangere" (touch me not): https://i.imgur.com/UIUZM4p.png https://i.imgur.com/UIUZM4p.png Here's South Carolina's secession flag: https://i.imgur.com/14Yuw3G.png https://i.imgur.com/14Yuw3G.png Another Georgia one that General Sherman captured: https://i.imgur.com/Hk41Xy7.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Hk41Xy7.jpg Explicitly spelling it out with the serpent imagery "Slave states ... the only way of preserving our slave property [and] our liberty, is a union with each other": https://i.imgur.com/iHkVl0H.png https://i.imgur.com/iHkVl0H.png Union propaganda, "Down with the traitors serpent flag": https://i.imgur.com/A0wKKZx.png https://i.imgur.com/A0wKKZx.png Union envelopes: https://i.imgur.com/g7ljHSf.png https://i.imgur.com/g7ljHSf.png KKK adopting it to protest civil rights: https://i.imgur.com/uDq7IZ4.png https://i.imgur.com/uDq7IZ4.png Flag proudly flies on the homepage of the largest white supremacist site on the internet: https://i.imgur.com/WWYL6T9.png https://i.imgur.com/WWYL6T9.png 100% of confederate flag rallies will have Gadsdens flying and ~100% of extremists who attack the government will fly it too (From the Vegas killings: https://i.imgur.com/yHWJCM8.png https://i.imgur.com/yHWJCM8.png, at the home of one of the extremists who plotted to execute Michigan's governor: https://www.mlive.com/resizer/OrmrIm147a1JxQUsKvBPGOdTt2U=/950x0/smart/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal/public/UQM4GYIB25FZ3EKZQW3COHUSEA.jpg https://www.mlive.com/resizer/OrmrIm147a1JxQUsKvBPGOdTt2U=/9..., at the Unite the Right rally: https://i.imgur.com/EG6roQa.jpg https://i.imgur.com/EG6roQa.jpg) It's fine, you can fly whatever flag you want for whatever reason you want, just be aware that the literal worst people in the country are flying the same one and that it was the rallying symbol for slavers.
- enchiridion 5y ago
  Thanks for the additional info. Where did you find out about this? Is there a good book or something? It’s all very interesting. As far as rallies flying the Gadsden, they’re also flying the America flags. I get what you’re saying, and I’m not one to make overt politic statements IRL in public, like flying any flag besides the US and maybe state. Again, to me and a lot of people the Gadsen represents rebels against tyrants. It even represents that to the objectionable people who use it. However, the idea of rebelling in order to upheld human rights is fundamental to the US. I am not willing to throw out the ideals or the iconography just because I disagree with the current (and confederate) rebels. I certainly agree with the flags original use when the US gained its independence. So while I won’t be publicly flying the flag because I don’t like to make public political statements, I might just hang it somewhere privately. IRL conversations like these are incredibly valuable to me and I believe in the general sentiment of the Gadsden.

mikeyouse 5y ago

The South co-opted the flag as a similar symbol of "opposing the government" like the Revolutionaries had, but in their case it was to oppose the abolition of slavery. Here's a better pic of the Alabama flag -- it's a cotton plant with a snake under it and the phrase "noli me tangere" (touch me not): https://i.imgur.com/UIUZM4p.png https://i.imgur.com/UIUZM4p.png Here's South Carolina's secession flag: https://i.imgur.com/14Yuw3G.png https://i.imgur.com/14Yuw3G.png Another Georgia one that General Sherman captured: https://i.imgur.com/Hk41Xy7.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Hk41Xy7.jpg Explicitly spelling it out with the serpent imagery "Slave states ... the only way of preserving our slave property [and] our liberty, is a union with each other": https://i.imgur.com/iHkVl0H.png https://i.imgur.com/iHkVl0H.png Union propaganda, "Down with the traitors serpent flag": https://i.imgur.com/A0wKKZx.png https://i.imgur.com/A0wKKZx.png Union envelopes: https://i.imgur.com/g7ljHSf.png https://i.imgur.com/g7ljHSf.png KKK adopting it to protest civil rights: https://i.imgur.com/uDq7IZ4.png https://i.imgur.com/uDq7IZ4.png Flag proudly flies on the homepage of the largest white supremacist site on the internet: https://i.imgur.com/WWYL6T9.png https://i.imgur.com/WWYL6T9.png 100% of confederate flag rallies will have Gadsdens flying and ~100% of extremists who attack the government will fly it too (From the Vegas killings: https://i.imgur.com/yHWJCM8.png https://i.imgur.com/yHWJCM8.png, at the home of one of the extremists who plotted to execute Michigan's governor: https://www.mlive.com/resizer/OrmrIm147a1JxQUsKvBPGOdTt2U=/950x0/smart/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal/public/UQM4GYIB25FZ3EKZQW3COHUSEA.jpg https://www.mlive.com/resizer/OrmrIm147a1JxQUsKvBPGOdTt2U=/9..., at the Unite the Right rally: https://i.imgur.com/EG6roQa.jpg https://i.imgur.com/EG6roQa.jpg) It's fine, you can fly whatever flag you want for whatever reason you want, just be aware that the literal worst people in the country are flying the same one and that it was the rallying symbol for slavers.

enchiridion 5y ago
Thanks for the additional info. Where did you find out about this? Is there a good book or something? It’s all very interesting. As far as rallies flying the Gadsden, they’re also flying the America flags. I get what you’re saying, and I’m not one to make overt politic statements IRL in public, like flying any flag besides the US and maybe state. Again, to me and a lot of people the Gadsen represents rebels against tyrants. It even represents that to the objectionable people who use it. However, the idea of rebelling in order to upheld human rights is fundamental to the US. I am not willing to throw out the ideals or the iconography just because I disagree with the current (and confederate) rebels. I certainly agree with the flags original use when the US gained its independence. So while I won’t be publicly flying the flag because I don’t like to make public political statements, I might just hang it somewhere privately. IRL conversations like these are incredibly valuable to me and I believe in the general sentiment of the Gadsden.