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Normal people trust people in suits more than an anonymous group talking in terms they don't understand. That's not going to change. My view is cryptos are/wil

Normal people trust people in suits more than an anonymous group talking in terms they don't understand. That's not going to change. My view is cryptos are/will be the 'new cash', as in cash is now used for mostly illegal purposes anyway. Nobody withdraws 100 dollars to buy groceries.

rglullis 5y ago
> Normal people trust people in suits more than an anonymous group Who said anything about "anonymous groups"? What happened with the idea of family-owned businesses, local communities, cooperatives? Have millennials become that alienated from their immediate environment? Is it so hard to conceive of a world where a small-medium business can "run their own bank" so that any of its employees/contractors/suppliers have accounts at their local "crypto bank" to get paid? Or a farmers cooperative that providers sales/distribution services to its members and uses a Hub20 instance to manage payouts, or provide mutual insurance services?
- ricardobayes 5y ago
  Why would anyone want that though? From a SME perspective, there's nothing wrong with banks. They are not in the business of banking, why would they bother 'running their bank'. Cryptos make little sense from a layman's perspective, let alone in a boardroom setting. Banking loves SME's and vice versa, they have hundreds of years of trust, not mentioning underwriting, lending, risk scoring etc.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    > From a SME perspective, there's nothing wrong with banks. That is only true in most developed countries, but far from the reality in the developing world. Even in the developed world, having the alternative is good, as it gives room for competition. > Banking loves SME's and vice versa In Germany, there are plenty of restaurants and bars that are cash-only, because the transaction fees + the cost of operating a PoS is not worth it. Try running a (legal) cannabis dispensary or a sex shop and knock on a bank to get a loan for rotating capital. > years of trust, not mentioning underwriting, lending, risk scoring etc. And all of that is going away with the increased consolidation of banks, the "AI models" that deny you a credit line based on your postal code, the fintechs that want disrupt retail banking but provide Google-level of customer support, etc, etc, etc...
    - ricardobayes 5y ago
      > SME's in developing countries have other issues to take care than running their bank. > Germany being a cash-preferred society doesn't automatically mean businesses are eager to accept cryptos. It's not that they don't trust banks or because of transaction fees - believe me their margins are there. I hope you didn't set up a business based on this false assumption. Other than that, unless you use Nano, every crypto transaction comes with a fee, and usually way clunkier and slower than normal transactions (for now). In EU we have immediate and free bank transfers everywhere. > The other two industries mentioned are good examples, outlines the fact cryptos are indeed no good for anything other than anonymized illegal transactions. > And yes, fintech customer support is said to be bad, but usually equally so is crypto app support. And if you're running your bank, there's zero support. You screwed up a tx and lost 100k? Too bad. This never happens with a brick-and-mortar bank.
      - rglullis 5y ago
        The point you are so reluctantly refusing to see is that it is about options and the long tail. Yeah, the majority of business and people are fine with the status quo. It doesn't mean that the rest should just conform. > Other than that, unless you use Nano, every crypto transaction comes with a fee (...) slower than normal transactions - https://raiden.network https://raiden.network (near-zero fee transfers, akin to Lightning Network, running on Ethereum) - https://aztec.network/ https://aztec.network/ (private payments, running on Ethereum) - https://loopring.io https://loopring.io (super fast roll-up based on Ethereum, transfers are instant and cost less than 20 cents) > The other two industries mentioned are good examples No, I said the EXACT opposite. These are PERFECTLY LEGAL businesses that banks do not want to provide services either because of stigma and or because they are seen as too risky. > And if you're running your bank, there's zero support. Again, either you haven't read the links or you don't understand what I am doing with Hub20. I'm guessing you didn't really read, because if you did you'd see that it's not a business, but merely an open source project. Anyway, the point of Hub20 is EXACTLY to address the issues (UX/technical/social) from the "fully decentralized" wallets. It abstracts away the complexity from crypto for the users and puts this burden on the hub operators. It avoids the cost of decentralized/"trustless" operations when they a more "conventional" token transfer/exchange can be done. I went as far as writing in the docs Do not open an account on a hub20 instance if you can not personally knock on the door of its operator. It is part of its design to sacrifice some of the decentralization in favor of established social bonds. It's not meant for those making 6-digit transfers, it's meant for someone who wants to run a mini-checking account.

rglullis 5y ago

> Normal people trust people in suits more than an anonymous group Who said anything about "anonymous groups"? What happened with the idea of family-owned businesses, local communities, cooperatives? Have millennials become that alienated from their immediate environment? Is it so hard to conceive of a world where a small-medium business can "run their own bank" so that any of its employees/contractors/suppliers have accounts at their local "crypto bank" to get paid? Or a farmers cooperative that providers sales/distribution services to its members and uses a Hub20 instance to manage payouts, or provide mutual insurance services?

ricardobayes 5y ago
Why would anyone want that though? From a SME perspective, there's nothing wrong with banks. They are not in the business of banking, why would they bother 'running their bank'. Cryptos make little sense from a layman's perspective, let alone in a boardroom setting. Banking loves SME's and vice versa, they have hundreds of years of trust, not mentioning underwriting, lending, risk scoring etc.
- rglullis 5y ago
  > From a SME perspective, there's nothing wrong with banks. That is only true in most developed countries, but far from the reality in the developing world. Even in the developed world, having the alternative is good, as it gives room for competition. > Banking loves SME's and vice versa In Germany, there are plenty of restaurants and bars that are cash-only, because the transaction fees + the cost of operating a PoS is not worth it. Try running a (legal) cannabis dispensary or a sex shop and knock on a bank to get a loan for rotating capital. > years of trust, not mentioning underwriting, lending, risk scoring etc. And all of that is going away with the increased consolidation of banks, the "AI models" that deny you a credit line based on your postal code, the fintechs that want disrupt retail banking but provide Google-level of customer support, etc, etc, etc...
  - ricardobayes 5y ago
    > SME's in developing countries have other issues to take care than running their bank. > Germany being a cash-preferred society doesn't automatically mean businesses are eager to accept cryptos. It's not that they don't trust banks or because of transaction fees - believe me their margins are there. I hope you didn't set up a business based on this false assumption. Other than that, unless you use Nano, every crypto transaction comes with a fee, and usually way clunkier and slower than normal transactions (for now). In EU we have immediate and free bank transfers everywhere. > The other two industries mentioned are good examples, outlines the fact cryptos are indeed no good for anything other than anonymized illegal transactions. > And yes, fintech customer support is said to be bad, but usually equally so is crypto app support. And if you're running your bank, there's zero support. You screwed up a tx and lost 100k? Too bad. This never happens with a brick-and-mortar bank.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      The point you are so reluctantly refusing to see is that it is about options and the long tail. Yeah, the majority of business and people are fine with the status quo. It doesn't mean that the rest should just conform. > Other than that, unless you use Nano, every crypto transaction comes with a fee (...) slower than normal transactions - https://raiden.network https://raiden.network (near-zero fee transfers, akin to Lightning Network, running on Ethereum) - https://aztec.network/ https://aztec.network/ (private payments, running on Ethereum) - https://loopring.io https://loopring.io (super fast roll-up based on Ethereum, transfers are instant and cost less than 20 cents) > The other two industries mentioned are good examples No, I said the EXACT opposite. These are PERFECTLY LEGAL businesses that banks do not want to provide services either because of stigma and or because they are seen as too risky. > And if you're running your bank, there's zero support. Again, either you haven't read the links or you don't understand what I am doing with Hub20. I'm guessing you didn't really read, because if you did you'd see that it's not a business, but merely an open source project. Anyway, the point of Hub20 is EXACTLY to address the issues (UX/technical/social) from the "fully decentralized" wallets. It abstracts away the complexity from crypto for the users and puts this burden on the hub operators. It avoids the cost of decentralized/"trustless" operations when they a more "conventional" token transfer/exchange can be done. I went as far as writing in the docs Do not open an account on a hub20 instance if you can not personally knock on the door of its operator. It is part of its design to sacrifice some of the decentralization in favor of established social bonds. It's not meant for those making 6-digit transfers, it's meant for someone who wants to run a mini-checking account.