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People don't want to run their own bank, but they also don't want to depend an unbelievably opaque, complex systems that periodically crash, with no real accoun

People don't want to run their own bank, but they also don't want to depend an unbelievably opaque, complex systems that periodically crash, with no real accountability. The important thing that crypto brings is optionality. Without crypto, what option do we have if not to trust the handful of BofAs, Itaús, Deutsche Banks, Santanders and the Goldmans out there? Decentralization is a spectrum [0]. The Finance/Banking system is getting ever more centralized, more faceless, more intractable to individuals. Community banks and credit cooperatives are getting extinct. My dream goal for Hub20 [1] is that it allows us to bring community banks back. So those that do want to go through all the work of "being their own bank", can do so, but those that are simply looking for an alternative to the big banks, can go look for a more local, human-scale "bank" which can be powered by Hub20. [0]: https://twitter.com/rlullis/status/1307420668372430848 https://twitter.com/rlullis/status/1307420668372430848 [1]: https://blog.hub20.io/decentralization-costs-and-tradeoffs/ https://blog.hub20.io/decentralization-costs-and-tradeoffs/

ricardobayes 5y ago
Normal people trust people in suits more than an anonymous group talking in terms they don't understand. That's not going to change. My view is cryptos are/will be the 'new cash', as in cash is now used for mostly illegal purposes anyway. Nobody withdraws 100 dollars to buy groceries.
- rglullis 5y ago
  > Normal people trust people in suits more than an anonymous group Who said anything about "anonymous groups"? What happened with the idea of family-owned businesses, local communities, cooperatives? Have millennials become that alienated from their immediate environment? Is it so hard to conceive of a world where a small-medium business can "run their own bank" so that any of its employees/contractors/suppliers have accounts at their local "crypto bank" to get paid? Or a farmers cooperative that providers sales/distribution services to its members and uses a Hub20 instance to manage payouts, or provide mutual insurance services?
  - ricardobayes 5y ago
    Why would anyone want that though? From a SME perspective, there's nothing wrong with banks. They are not in the business of banking, why would they bother 'running their bank'. Cryptos make little sense from a layman's perspective, let alone in a boardroom setting. Banking loves SME's and vice versa, they have hundreds of years of trust, not mentioning underwriting, lending, risk scoring etc.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      > From a SME perspective, there's nothing wrong with banks. That is only true in most developed countries, but far from the reality in the developing world. Even in the developed world, having the alternative is good, as it gives room for competition. > Banking loves SME's and vice versa In Germany, there are plenty of restaurants and bars that are cash-only, because the transaction fees + the cost of operating a PoS is not worth it. Try running a (legal) cannabis dispensary or a sex shop and knock on a bank to get a loan for rotating capital. > years of trust, not mentioning underwriting, lending, risk scoring etc. And all of that is going away with the increased consolidation of banks, the "AI models" that deny you a credit line based on your postal code, the fintechs that want disrupt retail banking but provide Google-level of customer support, etc, etc, etc...
      - ricardobayes 5y ago
        > SME's in developing countries have other issues to take care than running their bank. > Germany being a cash-preferred society doesn't automatically mean businesses are eager to accept cryptos. It's not that they don't trust banks or because of transaction fees - believe me their margins are there. I hope you didn't set up a business based on this false assumption. Other than that, unless you use Nano, every crypto transaction comes with a fee, and usually way clunkier and slower than normal transactions (for now). In EU we have immediate and free bank transfers everywhere. > The other two industries mentioned are good examples, outlines the fact cryptos are indeed no good for anything other than anonymized illegal transactions. > And yes, fintech customer support is said to be bad, but usually equally so is crypto app support. And if you're running your bank, there's zero support. You screwed up a tx and lost 100k? Too bad. This never happens with a brick-and-mortar bank.
giaour 5y ago
> The important thing that crypto brings is optionality. Without crypto, what option do we have if not to trust the handful of BofAs, Itaús, Deutsche Banks, Santanders and the Goldmans out there? You can keep nonmonetary stores of value (gold bars, fine art, silos of harvested wheat) and then convert them to cash as needed. If you find the right counterparty, you can even skip the conversion and barter directly. > Decentralization is a spectrum We're on this spectrum now. There is no world currency; anybody is free to make their own (the hard part is getting others to accept it). The existence of cryptocurrency is proof of this.
- rglullis 5y ago
  Can you participate in the global economy by holding gold bars, wheat and fine art?

ricardobayes 5y ago

Normal people trust people in suits more than an anonymous group talking in terms they don't understand. That's not going to change. My view is cryptos are/will be the 'new cash', as in cash is now used for mostly illegal purposes anyway. Nobody withdraws 100 dollars to buy groceries.

rglullis 5y ago
> Normal people trust people in suits more than an anonymous group Who said anything about "anonymous groups"? What happened with the idea of family-owned businesses, local communities, cooperatives? Have millennials become that alienated from their immediate environment? Is it so hard to conceive of a world where a small-medium business can "run their own bank" so that any of its employees/contractors/suppliers have accounts at their local "crypto bank" to get paid? Or a farmers cooperative that providers sales/distribution services to its members and uses a Hub20 instance to manage payouts, or provide mutual insurance services?
- ricardobayes 5y ago
  Why would anyone want that though? From a SME perspective, there's nothing wrong with banks. They are not in the business of banking, why would they bother 'running their bank'. Cryptos make little sense from a layman's perspective, let alone in a boardroom setting. Banking loves SME's and vice versa, they have hundreds of years of trust, not mentioning underwriting, lending, risk scoring etc.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    > From a SME perspective, there's nothing wrong with banks. That is only true in most developed countries, but far from the reality in the developing world. Even in the developed world, having the alternative is good, as it gives room for competition. > Banking loves SME's and vice versa In Germany, there are plenty of restaurants and bars that are cash-only, because the transaction fees + the cost of operating a PoS is not worth it. Try running a (legal) cannabis dispensary or a sex shop and knock on a bank to get a loan for rotating capital. > years of trust, not mentioning underwriting, lending, risk scoring etc. And all of that is going away with the increased consolidation of banks, the "AI models" that deny you a credit line based on your postal code, the fintechs that want disrupt retail banking but provide Google-level of customer support, etc, etc, etc...
    - ricardobayes 5y ago
      > SME's in developing countries have other issues to take care than running their bank. > Germany being a cash-preferred society doesn't automatically mean businesses are eager to accept cryptos. It's not that they don't trust banks or because of transaction fees - believe me their margins are there. I hope you didn't set up a business based on this false assumption. Other than that, unless you use Nano, every crypto transaction comes with a fee, and usually way clunkier and slower than normal transactions (for now). In EU we have immediate and free bank transfers everywhere. > The other two industries mentioned are good examples, outlines the fact cryptos are indeed no good for anything other than anonymized illegal transactions. > And yes, fintech customer support is said to be bad, but usually equally so is crypto app support. And if you're running your bank, there's zero support. You screwed up a tx and lost 100k? Too bad. This never happens with a brick-and-mortar bank.

giaour 5y ago

> The important thing that crypto brings is optionality. Without crypto, what option do we have if not to trust the handful of BofAs, Itaús, Deutsche Banks, Santanders and the Goldmans out there? You can keep nonmonetary stores of value (gold bars, fine art, silos of harvested wheat) and then convert them to cash as needed. If you find the right counterparty, you can even skip the conversion and barter directly. > Decentralization is a spectrum We're on this spectrum now. There is no world currency; anybody is free to make their own (the hard part is getting others to accept it). The existence of cryptocurrency is proof of this.

rglullis 5y ago
Can you participate in the global economy by holding gold bars, wheat and fine art?