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There is no democracy other than direct democracy. If you cant fire your government this afternoon, they own you, not the other way around.

by sfe22 5y ago

codechad 5y ago
CaptainZapp 5y ago
That's not how direct democracy works. If we assume that Switzerland is probably closest to the ideal of a direct democracy please take note that voters can not directly vote for the executive government (The Bundesrat, or federal council). They elect members of the two houses, which in turn elects the 7 executives. Usually this is based on the recommendation by the parties and with a specific formula considering party, language and area of the country. We also can't fire government members this afternoon. It's just like everywhere else. We can just not re-elect them.
- sfe22 5y ago
  I looked up the Swiss system, and it certainly is not direct democracy.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    So many towns where I live put issues on the agenda for town meetings. How this works in practice is that, if there's some issue that someone (like a developer) feels strongly about, they pack the town meeting with allies and push it through because most people probably don't care much and don't even attend the meeting.
  - ebruchez 5y ago
    > it certainly is not direct democracy You appear to make up your own extreme definition of what the words "direct democracy" should be and what they should mean. But it's not like that. There are ways words and condepts are commonly used. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy
    - sfe22 5y ago
      Looks like I need a new word to describe a system where everyone rules, rather than certain people or organization, since both democracy and direct democracy are apparently taken to describe systems where all people don’t actually rule. Maybe “actual true direct pure democracy” should do.
      - ebruchez 5y ago
        > Maybe “actual true direct pure democracy” should do. That would certainly be clearer :)
  - CaptainZapp 5y ago
    I'd argue that it's closest practical example of direct democracy. As in initiatives and referendums. But I'm always happy to learn if you can come up with a counter example.
pessimizer 5y ago
Under a direct democracy, you should be able to vote that you can't do that.

There is no democracy other than direct democracy. If you cant fire your government this afternoon, they own you, not the other way around.

by sfe22 5y ago

There is no democracy other than direct democracy. If you cant fire your government this afternoon, they own you, not the other way around.

codechad 5y ago

CaptainZapp 5y ago

That's not how direct democracy works. If we assume that Switzerland is probably closest to the ideal of a direct democracy please take note that voters can not directly vote for the executive government (The Bundesrat, or federal council). They elect members of the two houses, which in turn elects the 7 executives. Usually this is based on the recommendation by the parties and with a specific formula considering party, language and area of the country. We also can't fire government members this afternoon. It's just like everywhere else. We can just not re-elect them.

sfe22 5y ago
I looked up the Swiss system, and it certainly is not direct democracy.
- ghaff 5y ago
  So many towns where I live put issues on the agenda for town meetings. How this works in practice is that, if there's some issue that someone (like a developer) feels strongly about, they pack the town meeting with allies and push it through because most people probably don't care much and don't even attend the meeting.
- ebruchez 5y ago
  > it certainly is not direct democracy You appear to make up your own extreme definition of what the words "direct democracy" should be and what they should mean. But it's not like that. There are ways words and condepts are commonly used. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy
  - sfe22 5y ago
    Looks like I need a new word to describe a system where everyone rules, rather than certain people or organization, since both democracy and direct democracy are apparently taken to describe systems where all people don’t actually rule. Maybe “actual true direct pure democracy” should do.
    - ebruchez 5y ago
      > Maybe “actual true direct pure democracy” should do. That would certainly be clearer :)
- CaptainZapp 5y ago
  I'd argue that it's closest practical example of direct democracy. As in initiatives and referendums. But I'm always happy to learn if you can come up with a counter example.

pessimizer 5y ago

Under a direct democracy, you should be able to vote that you can't do that.