4 ms·

That’s roughly equivalent to 120,000 Euro/year once normalized for taxes (~50% for self-employed, ~30% for employees). I have no idea what typical salaries are

That’s roughly equivalent to 120,000 Euro/year once normalized for taxes (~50% for self-employed, ~30% for employees). I have no idea what typical salaries are in the EU, but that’s on the low end of mid-career for much of the US.

nickkell 5y ago
It would be the top range (if at all possible) for a developer working as a permanent employee. Usually the only way to make this kind of money is to go self-employed
- KronisLV 5y ago
  Heh, as a salaried dev who gets 1700 - 1800 Euros per month (so around 90 Euros per day) after taxes in Latvia, some of the numbers in this thread are pretty sobering, even if you take the costs of being self employed or taxes into account. If you take the run of the mill Java dev salary here, the net value is somewhere between 900 - 3000 Euros or so, across all levels of seniority [1]. Really makes one consider the benefits of working for companies in other countries, assuming that there are no cultural or time zone issues that cannot be dealt with. Or, you know, to acquire skills that are high in demand but relatively low in supply. [1] - https://www.algas.lv/en/salaryinfo/information-technology/java-programmer https://www.algas.lv/en/salaryinfo/information-technology/ja...
  - linedash 5y ago
    There are some great remote work opportunities these days. It might be worth starting to look at other European countries who are hiring. Take Ireland for example. You're not going to be making US level money but I'd say you could easily double what you're making now and there's the potential to go much higher than that.
    - KronisLV 5y ago
      Yep, and it seems like the pandemic largely showed that there are quite a few jobs out there that can be done remotely with decent success in many environments. Well, at least as long as the culture fit is there etc., admittedly remote isn't for everyone, but on the flip side, geography/commute being less of an issue for the remainder of people is great!
taneq 5y ago
Is it low-mid for "much of the US" or for much of the Silicon Valley venture crowd?
- urthor 5y ago
  Keep in mind consultants don't get 401K plans or many other things, AND they have to save about 15-20% of their income as "in between jobs" money, in case they don't line work up. If you earn 30% more than a salaried employee you are barely breaking even most of the time.
- zzbzq 5y ago
  From the Stackoverflow survey, it would be below the national average (the mean), but I don't think there's actually many regions that pay the national average. SV pays more and most of the rest pays less.
  - taneq 5y ago
    I'd be interested to see how it compared with the median pay.
Fiahil 5y ago
Hold on, 700€ x 215 days worked (you don't count vacation time when freelance) = 150 500. Now, give it half to the taxman, and you're left with 75 250€ / year. And that's without the expenses, extra healthcare coverage, insurance etc. So pretty average when you considering that junior developer salaries are within this reach in EU capitals.
- nickkell 5y ago
  Even allowing that junior salaries reach this high (that's in the range for a senior in Berlin at least), that would be the PRE-TAX figure. Remove 40% (again, approximate taxes in Berlin, potentially more if you pay the "church" tax) and you've got 45150€, a significant difference.
  - Fiahil 5y ago
    Yes, of course, but everyone has to pay income, housing and a few other taxes regardless of employment status.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  215 / 5 = 43 weeks of work. 9 weeks vacation? I used 4 weeks, and by my experience that's generous (not talking about paid leave - all the freelancers I know are workaholics and don't take much leave, but maybe that's a US thing). 5*48 = 240 days, which works out to around 84000 EUR. Or 120,000 EUR - 30%. Regardless, 700 EUR/day seems in the ball-park for a generic all-around developer.
  - AitchEmArsey 5y ago
    Agreed. Some UK numbers for reference: £500/day is the absolute minimum for developer/DevOps outside London, £600/day much more common and including the cheap end for London. Senior is more often £800/day. You don't see values above that advertised, but people do obviously negotiate higher for specialist work; I have seen a mainframe developer charging £1500/day (on the low end of his range). Anything higher than that has always been a large consultancy rather than a freelancer. In my specialist niche I'd be asking for £1500/day top-end, expecting £800-1200 with negotiation depending on flexibility.

nickkell 5y ago

It would be the top range (if at all possible) for a developer working as a permanent employee. Usually the only way to make this kind of money is to go self-employed

KronisLV 5y ago
Heh, as a salaried dev who gets 1700 - 1800 Euros per month (so around 90 Euros per day) after taxes in Latvia, some of the numbers in this thread are pretty sobering, even if you take the costs of being self employed or taxes into account. If you take the run of the mill Java dev salary here, the net value is somewhere between 900 - 3000 Euros or so, across all levels of seniority [1]. Really makes one consider the benefits of working for companies in other countries, assuming that there are no cultural or time zone issues that cannot be dealt with. Or, you know, to acquire skills that are high in demand but relatively low in supply. [1] - https://www.algas.lv/en/salaryinfo/information-technology/java-programmer https://www.algas.lv/en/salaryinfo/information-technology/ja...
- linedash 5y ago
  There are some great remote work opportunities these days. It might be worth starting to look at other European countries who are hiring. Take Ireland for example. You're not going to be making US level money but I'd say you could easily double what you're making now and there's the potential to go much higher than that.
  - KronisLV 5y ago
    Yep, and it seems like the pandemic largely showed that there are quite a few jobs out there that can be done remotely with decent success in many environments. Well, at least as long as the culture fit is there etc., admittedly remote isn't for everyone, but on the flip side, geography/commute being less of an issue for the remainder of people is great!

taneq 5y ago

Is it low-mid for "much of the US" or for much of the Silicon Valley venture crowd?

urthor 5y ago
Keep in mind consultants don't get 401K plans or many other things, AND they have to save about 15-20% of their income as "in between jobs" money, in case they don't line work up. If you earn 30% more than a salaried employee you are barely breaking even most of the time.
zzbzq 5y ago
From the Stackoverflow survey, it would be below the national average (the mean), but I don't think there's actually many regions that pay the national average. SV pays more and most of the rest pays less.
- taneq 5y ago
  I'd be interested to see how it compared with the median pay.

Fiahil 5y ago

Hold on, 700€ x 215 days worked (you don't count vacation time when freelance) = 150 500. Now, give it half to the taxman, and you're left with 75 250€ / year. And that's without the expenses, extra healthcare coverage, insurance etc. So pretty average when you considering that junior developer salaries are within this reach in EU capitals.

nickkell 5y ago
Even allowing that junior salaries reach this high (that's in the range for a senior in Berlin at least), that would be the PRE-TAX figure. Remove 40% (again, approximate taxes in Berlin, potentially more if you pay the "church" tax) and you've got 45150€, a significant difference.
- Fiahil 5y ago
  Yes, of course, but everyone has to pay income, housing and a few other taxes regardless of employment status.
alistairSH 5y ago
215 / 5 = 43 weeks of work. 9 weeks vacation? I used 4 weeks, and by my experience that's generous (not talking about paid leave - all the freelancers I know are workaholics and don't take much leave, but maybe that's a US thing). 5*48 = 240 days, which works out to around 84000 EUR. Or 120,000 EUR - 30%. Regardless, 700 EUR/day seems in the ball-park for a generic all-around developer.
- AitchEmArsey 5y ago
  Agreed. Some UK numbers for reference: £500/day is the absolute minimum for developer/DevOps outside London, £600/day much more common and including the cheap end for London. Senior is more often £800/day. You don't see values above that advertised, but people do obviously negotiate higher for specialist work; I have seen a mainframe developer charging £1500/day (on the low end of his range). Anything higher than that has always been a large consultancy rather than a freelancer. In my specialist niche I'd be asking for £1500/day top-end, expecting £800-1200 with negotiation depending on flexibility.