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That’s obviously true. And once you accept that then the whole premise behind crypto is gone - if centralization is the only way to make it work, then tradition

That’s obviously true. And once you accept that then the whole premise behind crypto is gone - if centralization is the only way to make it work, then traditional banking is preferred. All that’s left are use cases that are in the gambling and money laundering category.

josefrichter 5y ago
I disagree. I believe there's a lot of areas where crypto can bring much more efficiency and transparency into financial markets, and that's a good thing. I agree the point is not to replace banks, but perhaps evolve them, bring about new types of financial institutions, products and instruments.
- civilized 5y ago
  What kind of efficiency are you talking about? It's far, far from clear -- at best -- that crypto can be more energy-efficient than traditional banking. Transparency? Really? For whom? Do you want your taxes on the blockchain for everyone to see?
- zikduruqe 5y ago
  I am not an expert in crypto at all, but what I would love to see maybe, is some type of stablecoin supported by the USPS. USPS used to be in the banking business and are now looking into it again. Is there an opportunity for the USPS to support USDC, to replace money orders to help serve the underbanked? I dunno. https://executivegov.com/2021/10/usps-launches-pilot-banking-program-at-four-postal-service-test-locations/ https://executivegov.com/2021/10/usps-launches-pilot-banking...
  - XorNot 5y ago
    Why wouldn't the USPS just be a bank, with accounts with the Fed and FDIC insurance though? The USPS not providing banking services is because Congress won't let it.
- ben_w 5y ago
  While I expect there are important new types of financial institutions, products and instruments that may be evolved by cryptocurrency experimentation, I would be extremely surprised if normal people could do a coherent analysis of the pros and cons of them, and expect they would not be able to distinguish the good ideas from the scams. I mean, look at how many people think literal lotteries are a good investment, or who are furious about the existence of inflation, or whose mind is blown when they first learn about fractional reserve banking. I don’t know what you mean about efficiency, as there are multiple different ways to count this. Energy efficiency clearly isn’t a selling point, so can you expand on what you do mean?
  - josefrichter 5y ago
    well, that has nothing to do with crypto, right? that's the case with current state of affairs already.
    - ben_w 5y ago
      Current state of affairs is regulated to prevent most normal people from getting into serious trouble most of the time, crypto not so much.
      - lowkey 5y ago
        I believe the current state of affairs has governments holding a monopoly on lotteries and actively promoting and marketing said lotteries to the financially illiterate. The odds of coming out ahead are wildly better in crypto vs lotteries. Perhaps we should put an end to government-controlled scams such as lotteries before claiming that regulated industries can do no wrong?
        ben_w 5y ago
        I’m not saying regulated industry can do no wrong, I’m saying the graph of for frequency vs. quantity of wrong for regulated is smaller overall and closer to the axis than for unregulated.
rdschouw 5y ago
Huh? Crypto is great as a transfer of value network and store of value among other things. You can still use a bankequivalent like Coinbase.
- tokai 5y ago
  Eh so is runescape items.
- 300bps 5y ago
  I mine ETH. I have flexpool.io configured to pay me out after I accumulate 0.05 ETH which is about $140 right now. They pay me out to my MEW wallet and the transfer costs me about $7. I then have to transfer from my MEW wallet to my Coinbase wallet which costs me about $5 since I choose the MEW turtle speed which takes longer. I then sell the ETH immediately because I realize how useless this crypto crap is for transactions or store of value. That costs me about $2.50. So about $15 in fees to get my $140. You call that a great transfer of value network? I’ve mine cryptocurrency since you could use a GPU for BTC. There is no legitimate use for cryptocurrency today and I doubt there ever will be. It is structurally flawed in numerous ways.
  - toss1 5y ago
    I'm curious, why you don't just have the pool payout straight to your Coinbase wallet, especially since that is your consistent destination, so at least some of the transfer fees are avoided?
    - 300bps 5y ago
      I could theoretically do that. But Coinbase says not to. And every single time I transfer ETH to Coinbase they give me a different wallet address to send the ETH to. Bottom line, they say not to do it and I personally can't guarantee I'm sending the ETH to my Coinbase account with an old ETH address that I've remembered.
      - toss1 5y ago
hcks 5y ago
The whole premise behind crypto isn't gone. You can build centralized custody wallets on the blockchain and you still get programmable money, no middle-men for transactions and lower barrier to entry for innovation in financial services (and of course self-managed wallets for powerusers)
- hocuspocus 5y ago
  > programmable money Where there's code, there are bugs. I don't want that in my money, thanks. > no middle-men for transactions At what cost? Most people don't care about censorship resistance, they want free/cheap/fast payments and transfers. > lower barrier to entry for innovation in financial services There's plenty of innovation in finance given the proper legal framework. See the number of fintech startups popping up every year. The only innovation we see in the cryptocurrency space is the recycling of old scams that are impossible in modern finance.
  - oblio 5y ago
    > Where there's code, there are bugs. I don't want that in my money, thanks. Yeah, money should be data, dumb configuration, not code. Add another, completely separate layer on top of that, for the code.
    - arbol 5y ago
      Data is still controlled by code and is just as easily affected by bugs.
- lottin 5y ago
  But none of that is true... transactions still require middle-men, and decentralised finance is fundamentally incompatible with financing. So we are left with "programmable money"... whatever that means.

josefrichter 5y ago

I disagree. I believe there's a lot of areas where crypto can bring much more efficiency and transparency into financial markets, and that's a good thing. I agree the point is not to replace banks, but perhaps evolve them, bring about new types of financial institutions, products and instruments.

civilized 5y ago
What kind of efficiency are you talking about? It's far, far from clear -- at best -- that crypto can be more energy-efficient than traditional banking. Transparency? Really? For whom? Do you want your taxes on the blockchain for everyone to see?
zikduruqe 5y ago
I am not an expert in crypto at all, but what I would love to see maybe, is some type of stablecoin supported by the USPS. USPS used to be in the banking business and are now looking into it again. Is there an opportunity for the USPS to support USDC, to replace money orders to help serve the underbanked? I dunno. https://executivegov.com/2021/10/usps-launches-pilot-banking-program-at-four-postal-service-test-locations/ https://executivegov.com/2021/10/usps-launches-pilot-banking...
- XorNot 5y ago
  Why wouldn't the USPS just be a bank, with accounts with the Fed and FDIC insurance though? The USPS not providing banking services is because Congress won't let it.
ben_w 5y ago
While I expect there are important new types of financial institutions, products and instruments that may be evolved by cryptocurrency experimentation, I would be extremely surprised if normal people could do a coherent analysis of the pros and cons of them, and expect they would not be able to distinguish the good ideas from the scams. I mean, look at how many people think literal lotteries are a good investment, or who are furious about the existence of inflation, or whose mind is blown when they first learn about fractional reserve banking. I don’t know what you mean about efficiency, as there are multiple different ways to count this. Energy efficiency clearly isn’t a selling point, so can you expand on what you do mean?
- josefrichter 5y ago
  well, that has nothing to do with crypto, right? that's the case with current state of affairs already.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    Current state of affairs is regulated to prevent most normal people from getting into serious trouble most of the time, crypto not so much.
    - lowkey 5y ago
      I believe the current state of affairs has governments holding a monopoly on lotteries and actively promoting and marketing said lotteries to the financially illiterate. The odds of coming out ahead are wildly better in crypto vs lotteries. Perhaps we should put an end to government-controlled scams such as lotteries before claiming that regulated industries can do no wrong?
      - ben_w 5y ago
        I’m not saying regulated industry can do no wrong, I’m saying the graph of for frequency vs. quantity of wrong for regulated is smaller overall and closer to the axis than for unregulated.

rdschouw 5y ago

Huh? Crypto is great as a transfer of value network and store of value among other things. You can still use a bankequivalent like Coinbase.

tokai 5y ago
Eh so is runescape items.
300bps 5y ago
I mine ETH. I have flexpool.io configured to pay me out after I accumulate 0.05 ETH which is about $140 right now. They pay me out to my MEW wallet and the transfer costs me about $7. I then have to transfer from my MEW wallet to my Coinbase wallet which costs me about $5 since I choose the MEW turtle speed which takes longer. I then sell the ETH immediately because I realize how useless this crypto crap is for transactions or store of value. That costs me about $2.50. So about $15 in fees to get my $140. You call that a great transfer of value network? I’ve mine cryptocurrency since you could use a GPU for BTC. There is no legitimate use for cryptocurrency today and I doubt there ever will be. It is structurally flawed in numerous ways.
- toss1 5y ago
  I'm curious, why you don't just have the pool payout straight to your Coinbase wallet, especially since that is your consistent destination, so at least some of the transfer fees are avoided?
  - 300bps 5y ago
    I could theoretically do that. But Coinbase says not to. And every single time I transfer ETH to Coinbase they give me a different wallet address to send the ETH to. Bottom line, they say not to do it and I personally can't guarantee I'm sending the ETH to my Coinbase account with an old ETH address that I've remembered.
    - toss1 5y ago

hcks 5y ago

The whole premise behind crypto isn't gone. You can build centralized custody wallets on the blockchain and you still get programmable money, no middle-men for transactions and lower barrier to entry for innovation in financial services (and of course self-managed wallets for powerusers)

hocuspocus 5y ago
> programmable money Where there's code, there are bugs. I don't want that in my money, thanks. > no middle-men for transactions At what cost? Most people don't care about censorship resistance, they want free/cheap/fast payments and transfers. > lower barrier to entry for innovation in financial services There's plenty of innovation in finance given the proper legal framework. See the number of fintech startups popping up every year. The only innovation we see in the cryptocurrency space is the recycling of old scams that are impossible in modern finance.
- oblio 5y ago
  > Where there's code, there are bugs. I don't want that in my money, thanks. Yeah, money should be data, dumb configuration, not code. Add another, completely separate layer on top of that, for the code.
  - arbol 5y ago
    Data is still controlled by code and is just as easily affected by bugs.
lottin 5y ago
But none of that is true... transactions still require middle-men, and decentralised finance is fundamentally incompatible with financing. So we are left with "programmable money"... whatever that means.