6 ms·

This is double bullshit: 1. All Apple did was giving users a choice (and they should've done that ages ago). If users didn't mind being tracked, or liked the "

by d12bb 5y ago

This is double bullshit: 1. All Apple did was giving users a choice (and they should've done that ages ago). If users didn't mind being tracked, or liked the "more relevant adverts" tracking provides, they would not have opted out. 2. Google is subject to exactly the same rules as Facebook is. Their apps have to ask for permission to track as Facebook's do, and Safari (which enforces privacy in many ways, too) is the same for google.com as for facebook.com. They pay Apple for being search provider in Safari and Siri the same way they pay Mozilla, because searches mean data and displayed adverts.

oarsinsync 5y ago
> 1. All Apple did was giving users a choice (and they should've done that ages ago). If users didn't mind being tracked, or liked the "more relevant adverts" tracking provides, they would not have opted out. The choice existed for a long time. What Apple did was make that choice front and centre for everyone, as opposed to being buried in a settings menu for privacy-conscious people to hunt down.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
treis 5y ago
Google doesn't really have apps though. Their users see ads through the browser and so, from what I understand, are unaffected by the change.
- falcolas 5y ago
  Not counting gmail, calendar, or the docs/drive suite, Google has >12 applications on the app store. Apple's "search" is pretty crappy WRT seeing what a dev has released (or at least the Google LLC "dev"), hence the range. And ads definitely show up in YouTube and such.
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    Apple's "search" is pretty crappy WRT seeing what a dev has released Click on the dev's name and it shows everything that dev has published. https://apps.apple.com/us/developer/google-llc/id281956209 https://apps.apple.com/us/developer/google-llc/id281956209
    - falcolas 5y ago
      I did (on my phone, fwiw), and it only showed 12, and not their big ones.
      - reaperducer 5y ago
        Perhaps because on your phone it shows only phone apps?
        falcolas 5y ago
        Well, it didn't show Gmail, Calendar, Drive, Sheets, or Docs. All of which are Google apps available on the phone.
  - treis 5y ago
    I didn't say they had no apps. I said they don't really have apps and they don't. Their main product is search and it's accessed through the browser. If what FB is saying is true then the move by Apple helps Google. There's more or less two options for online advertising. So if companies spend less on FB then they're probably going to spend those dollars with Google
    - falcolas 5y ago
      I give you Google, the app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942 Google search, in an iOS app. Not everyone uses it, sure, but has over 341k reviews. Facebook, as a point of comparison, only has about 4x more reviews at 1.2M. 4x is a lot, but it's also a lot less than I'd expect over something primarily used in the browser.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  Google doesn't really have apps though Google has 17 apps for Apple devices. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-one/id1451784328 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-one/id1451784328 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/screenwise-meter/id1455562397 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/screenwise-meter/id1455562397 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/notable-women-ar/id1425071635 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/notable-women-ar/id1425071635 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/just-a-line-draw-in-ar/id1367242427 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/just-a-line-draw-in-ar/id13672... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-tasks-get-things-done/id1353634006 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-tasks-get-things-done/i... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/looker-mobile/id1533498070 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/looker-mobile/id1533498070 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-podcasts/id1398000105 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-podcasts/id1398000105 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-stadia/id1471900213 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-stadia/id1471900213 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-fit-activity-tracker/id1433864494 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-fit-activity-tracker/id... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-fi/id1413936031 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-fi/id1413936031 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/grasshopper-learn-to-code/id1354133284 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/grasshopper-learn-to-code/id13... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-music/id1017492454 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-music/id1017492454 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-keep-notes-and-lists/id1029207872 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-keep-notes-and-lists/id... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-maps/id585027354 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-maps/id585027354 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-tv/id1193350206 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-tv/id1193350206 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-kids/id936971630 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-kids/id936971630 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-watch-listen-stream/id544007664 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-watch-listen-stream/id...
strulovich 5y ago
Part of the issue is the language. Apple used the “ask no to track language”, but when it came to their own services chose “turn off personalized ads”: https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/02/apple-personalized-ads-targeting-ios-15/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/02/apple-personalized-ads-target... Not saying tracking shouldn’t be stopped. But remember Apple is much less privacy aware when it’s their wallet.
- brimble 5y ago
  Is the issue the language? It's not clear from the language or the article that Apple's version disables any tracking at all. It seems like two different things.
  - thebean11 5y ago
    How could you possibly server personalized ads without tracking?
    - brimble 5y ago
      Why would disabling personalized ads necessarily disable tracking? [EDIT] Consider: toggling the display of something does not necessarily change the underlying data, or data collection, behavior. Why would all data used to personalize ads have to be tracking? It could also be things like purchase data from the very service that's advertising to you. Halting collection—not use for ad personalization, but collection—of that would go beyond what even I would consider tracking (and I think most of what goes on in the ad world today should simply be illegal). It would be possible to personalize ads only based on this kind of thing—in fact, that's what the article seems to imply is going on, at least in part. So there are at least two ways that setting might mean something different from one that disables tracking.
      - thebean11 5y ago
        I think we are coming at it from different directions. You need tracking for personalized ads, you don't need personalized ads for tracking.
pessimizer 5y ago
That's definitely not why they pay Mozilla. Being the default search engine in a browser that a minuscule percentage of the market uses, and then the vast majority of those only use because they're hostile to Google, isn't worth shit. If I go to my bodega once a month to spend $80 on sticks of $2 incense, it's because I'm buying drugs.

by d12bb 5y ago

oarsinsync 5y ago

> 1. All Apple did was giving users a choice (and they should've done that ages ago). If users didn't mind being tracked, or liked the "more relevant adverts" tracking provides, they would not have opted out. The choice existed for a long time. What Apple did was make that choice front and centre for everyone, as opposed to being buried in a settings menu for privacy-conscious people to hunt down.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

treis 5y ago

Google doesn't really have apps though. Their users see ads through the browser and so, from what I understand, are unaffected by the change.

falcolas 5y ago
Not counting gmail, calendar, or the docs/drive suite, Google has >12 applications on the app store. Apple's "search" is pretty crappy WRT seeing what a dev has released (or at least the Google LLC "dev"), hence the range. And ads definitely show up in YouTube and such.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  Apple's "search" is pretty crappy WRT seeing what a dev has released Click on the dev's name and it shows everything that dev has published. https://apps.apple.com/us/developer/google-llc/id281956209 https://apps.apple.com/us/developer/google-llc/id281956209
  - falcolas 5y ago
    I did (on my phone, fwiw), and it only showed 12, and not their big ones.
    - reaperducer 5y ago
      Perhaps because on your phone it shows only phone apps?
      - falcolas 5y ago
        Well, it didn't show Gmail, Calendar, Drive, Sheets, or Docs. All of which are Google apps available on the phone.
- treis 5y ago
  I didn't say they had no apps. I said they don't really have apps and they don't. Their main product is search and it's accessed through the browser. If what FB is saying is true then the move by Apple helps Google. There's more or less two options for online advertising. So if companies spend less on FB then they're probably going to spend those dollars with Google
  - falcolas 5y ago
    I give you Google, the app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942 Google search, in an iOS app. Not everyone uses it, sure, but has over 341k reviews. Facebook, as a point of comparison, only has about 4x more reviews at 1.2M. 4x is a lot, but it's also a lot less than I'd expect over something primarily used in the browser.
reaperducer 5y ago
Google doesn't really have apps though Google has 17 apps for Apple devices. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-one/id1451784328 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-one/id1451784328 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/screenwise-meter/id1455562397 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/screenwise-meter/id1455562397 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google/id284815942 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/notable-women-ar/id1425071635 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/notable-women-ar/id1425071635 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/just-a-line-draw-in-ar/id1367242427 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/just-a-line-draw-in-ar/id13672... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-tasks-get-things-done/id1353634006 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-tasks-get-things-done/i... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/looker-mobile/id1533498070 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/looker-mobile/id1533498070 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-podcasts/id1398000105 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-podcasts/id1398000105 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-stadia/id1471900213 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-stadia/id1471900213 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-fit-activity-tracker/id1433864494 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-fit-activity-tracker/id... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-fi/id1413936031 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-fi/id1413936031 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/grasshopper-learn-to-code/id1354133284 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/grasshopper-learn-to-code/id13... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-music/id1017492454 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-music/id1017492454 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-keep-notes-and-lists/id1029207872 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-keep-notes-and-lists/id... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-maps/id585027354 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-maps/id585027354 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-tv/id1193350206 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-tv/id1193350206 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-kids/id936971630 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-kids/id936971630 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-watch-listen-stream/id544007664 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/youtube-watch-listen-stream/id...

strulovich 5y ago

Part of the issue is the language. Apple used the “ask no to track language”, but when it came to their own services chose “turn off personalized ads”: https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/02/apple-personalized-ads-targeting-ios-15/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/02/apple-personalized-ads-target... Not saying tracking shouldn’t be stopped. But remember Apple is much less privacy aware when it’s their wallet.

brimble 5y ago
Is the issue the language? It's not clear from the language or the article that Apple's version disables any tracking at all. It seems like two different things.
- thebean11 5y ago
  How could you possibly server personalized ads without tracking?
  - brimble 5y ago
    Why would disabling personalized ads necessarily disable tracking? [EDIT] Consider: toggling the display of something does not necessarily change the underlying data, or data collection, behavior. Why would all data used to personalize ads have to be tracking? It could also be things like purchase data from the very service that's advertising to you. Halting collection—not use for ad personalization, but collection—of that would go beyond what even I would consider tracking (and I think most of what goes on in the ad world today should simply be illegal). It would be possible to personalize ads only based on this kind of thing—in fact, that's what the article seems to imply is going on, at least in part. So there are at least two ways that setting might mean something different from one that disables tracking.
    - thebean11 5y ago
      I think we are coming at it from different directions. You need tracking for personalized ads, you don't need personalized ads for tracking.

pessimizer 5y ago

That's definitely not why they pay Mozilla. Being the default search engine in a browser that a minuscule percentage of the market uses, and then the vast majority of those only use because they're hostile to Google, isn't worth shit. If I go to my bodega once a month to spend $80 on sticks of $2 incense, it's because I'm buying drugs.