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>When I was a kid, I had an Apple II with a BASIC interpreter, [...] a computer like that, where there are a lot of open-ended ways to create. I think your pa

by jasode 5y ago

>When I was a kid, I had an Apple II with a BASIC interpreter, [...] a computer like that, where there are a lot of open-ended ways to create. I think your particular childhood memories that understandably left an imprint on you have inadvertently affected your idea of what "open-ended" creation means. >, and great creative experiences don't seem available on desktop I also grew up with those 8-bit computers and I don't think the Apple II / Commodore 64 / Texas Instruments TI-99 with burned in ROM BASIC and 64kb RAM are more creative. It was simply a different time and we as children just used the technology that happened to be available for the price point of home computers. If I ignore my childhood, I'd have to objectively weigh those early home computers as less open-ended. Sure, I had fun with BASIC "10 PRINT HELLO 20 GOTO 10" and giggled as the text infinitely scrolled up. But we all had lower standards of novelty because computers were not as powerful. With today's desktop and a browser, kids can "be creative" with digital art or make music with more powerful tools. Many examples of expressive worlds are just a few clicks away with no software to install or EPROM cartridges to buy: + digital art: https://www.google.com/search?q=online+painting https://www.google.com/search?q=online+painting + digital music: https://www.google.com/search?q=online+beats+maker https://www.google.com/search?q=online+beats+maker + Javascript is more powerful than ROM BASIC and the tools cost $0 With Commodore or TI computers, I couldn't even save my BASIC programs until my parents saved enough money for a $100 cassette tape interface or $200 for floppy drive. Instead of thinking my childhood time with computers was more creative, I'm actually jealous of what today's kids can do on modern desktop computers and the web.

hnthrowaway0315 5y ago
However, restrained environment may inspire creativity. For sure today's kids have way more choices and the almost unlimited resources (as long as the family is not poor), but I wouldn't say it's a benefit without harm, from my exp having way more choices than one can digest is always bad. Plus most of the choices out there do not give you the benefit to build from the bottom -- a very important skill for engineering.
greenbit 5y ago
Indeed. I had the 4K 'Level I' from RadioShack, and there wasn't much that could be done with that. But the allure was that there was literally nothing else you could do with a television that was interactive, save for maybe the Atari 2600. So you could watch TV, play rather finite games on the TV, or omg have Total Control of the Screen! It helped that the graphics from a TRS-80/PET/AppleII were on par with the 2600, that made the ROM BASIC boxes the same, to a child's visual senses, and gave you the control. Had the game console of 1979 been even as good as the NES, it's doubtful that those early BASIC boxes could have competed for the attention of a 10yo.
- ddingus 5y ago
  This is true! Getting control over the pixels was a big deal back then. Doing anything interactive was magic!! My own kids were not interested in computing itself. They largely ignored my retro systems. They loved MAME though. I had a great setup with a big CRT and they played the crap out of it, that setup competing nicely with a Playstation. This surprised me. My granddaughter is a bit different. She's interested, sees me using the old machine and wants to join in. If I am doing it with her, she's in. She won't do much on her own yet. And she's 6!
  - markus_zhang 5y ago
    They say grand children are like their grand parents, guess there is some truth in it.
    - ddingus 5y ago
      There was truth to it in my family. I had a great affinity for my GPs

by jasode 5y ago

hnthrowaway0315 5y ago

However, restrained environment may inspire creativity. For sure today's kids have way more choices and the almost unlimited resources (as long as the family is not poor), but I wouldn't say it's a benefit without harm, from my exp having way more choices than one can digest is always bad. Plus most of the choices out there do not give you the benefit to build from the bottom -- a very important skill for engineering.

greenbit 5y ago

Indeed. I had the 4K 'Level I' from RadioShack, and there wasn't much that could be done with that. But the allure was that there was literally nothing else you could do with a television that was interactive, save for maybe the Atari 2600. So you could watch TV, play rather finite games on the TV, or omg have Total Control of the Screen! It helped that the graphics from a TRS-80/PET/AppleII were on par with the 2600, that made the ROM BASIC boxes the same, to a child's visual senses, and gave you the control. Had the game console of 1979 been even as good as the NES, it's doubtful that those early BASIC boxes could have competed for the attention of a 10yo.

ddingus 5y ago
This is true! Getting control over the pixels was a big deal back then. Doing anything interactive was magic!! My own kids were not interested in computing itself. They largely ignored my retro systems. They loved MAME though. I had a great setup with a big CRT and they played the crap out of it, that setup competing nicely with a Playstation. This surprised me. My granddaughter is a bit different. She's interested, sees me using the old machine and wants to join in. If I am doing it with her, she's in. She won't do much on her own yet. And she's 6!
- markus_zhang 5y ago
  They say grand children are like their grand parents, guess there is some truth in it.
  - ddingus 5y ago
    There was truth to it in my family. I had a great affinity for my GPs