4 ms·

The UK is not an island in any meaningful sense, because we have many of the the busiest airports and we are functionally dependent on imported food. The idea

The UK is not an island in any meaningful sense, because we have many of the the busiest airports and we are functionally dependent on imported food. The idea we could close borders unilaterally before anyone else did is, I'm afraid, nearly delusional. It is a populist fantasy. We have the worst deaths per capita largely because of the interconnectedness (not the density) of our populations; it is not how many people live in one place, but how many people live in one place and work in another. This is for example part of why the Czech Republic, which is not at all a poor state -- it has a very low rate of poverty, low unemployment and high rates of GDP growth -- did so incredibly badly, after an initial phase of successful mask-wearing. No matter what you do, when your population is so heavily interconnected within itself and with its neighbours, complacency kills. Median age plus the proportion of multigenerational families and homes in multiple occupation) is what made things so bad for Italy. The latter -- multiple families and multiple generations in single dwellings -- is also one of the complicating factors for the north of England vs the south.

pasabagi 5y ago
Japan is also not 'an island in any meaningful sense'. Yet it seems like when it came to coronavirus, it was an advantage. It's obviously easier to control borders when everybody needs to go through passport control to enter or exit.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  Japan is surely far less of an international transport hub, for one obvious difference? Many things in Japan were advantageous (a culture that leans more towards collectivism and social thinking) but considering it's now abundantly obvious that SARS-CoV-2 is an airborne virus, I suspect it will come down more to pre-established habitual mask-wearing and the higher-tech air conditioning that Japan needs to function. We could never have closed our borders in a meaningful sense for any meaningful length of time, and this is mirrored in the fact that most of Europe kept its borders open to us for long periods of time. We could have been isolated from the start, but in practice that was selective.
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    > We could never have closed our borders in a meaningful sense for any meaningful length of time I've been traveling in and out of the UK throughout the pandemic, and my observation is: - You don't have to close borders to have strong controls. The 'PCR test before travel' + 'test on day 2 and 8' would have been pretty robust if implemented at the right time. - These measures were consistently implemented at the wrong time. For instance, when the delta wave was starting, there were no restrictions. When it was peaking in the UK, there were strong controls, even when you were coming from a country with a low incidence rate. My general opinion is that the UK did the right measures[0], but consistently with the wrong timing. It's generally been the case that border controls have been harsh when they were most unnecessary, and weak when they were most needed. It's stupid to have to quarantine for ten days when you're traveling into a country that has multiple orders of magnitude higher infection rates, and no mask mandates - but that's what I was doing last year. [0]: across the board, not exclusively in regards to travel.
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      > My general opinion is that the UK did the right measures[0], but consistently with the wrong timing. Absolutely this. The reason is Boris Johnson. I mean, quite literally. There is a cycle of him lurching between different Churchillian aspects -- freedom-and-damn-them-all-to-hell to fight-them-on-the-beaches and back. And he only ever changed to the latter position after the evidence was unavoidable, because he's psychologically incapable of thinking about anyone but himself and how history would perceive him personally. He is absolutely the fundamental reason why this country can only act out of expedience and urgency.

pasabagi 5y ago

Japan is also not 'an island in any meaningful sense'. Yet it seems like when it came to coronavirus, it was an advantage. It's obviously easier to control borders when everybody needs to go through passport control to enter or exit.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago
Japan is surely far less of an international transport hub, for one obvious difference? Many things in Japan were advantageous (a culture that leans more towards collectivism and social thinking) but considering it's now abundantly obvious that SARS-CoV-2 is an airborne virus, I suspect it will come down more to pre-established habitual mask-wearing and the higher-tech air conditioning that Japan needs to function. We could never have closed our borders in a meaningful sense for any meaningful length of time, and this is mirrored in the fact that most of Europe kept its borders open to us for long periods of time. We could have been isolated from the start, but in practice that was selective.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  > We could never have closed our borders in a meaningful sense for any meaningful length of time I've been traveling in and out of the UK throughout the pandemic, and my observation is: - You don't have to close borders to have strong controls. The 'PCR test before travel' + 'test on day 2 and 8' would have been pretty robust if implemented at the right time. - These measures were consistently implemented at the wrong time. For instance, when the delta wave was starting, there were no restrictions. When it was peaking in the UK, there were strong controls, even when you were coming from a country with a low incidence rate. My general opinion is that the UK did the right measures[0], but consistently with the wrong timing. It's generally been the case that border controls have been harsh when they were most unnecessary, and weak when they were most needed. It's stupid to have to quarantine for ten days when you're traveling into a country that has multiple orders of magnitude higher infection rates, and no mask mandates - but that's what I was doing last year. [0]: across the board, not exclusively in regards to travel.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    > My general opinion is that the UK did the right measures[0], but consistently with the wrong timing. Absolutely this. The reason is Boris Johnson. I mean, quite literally. There is a cycle of him lurching between different Churchillian aspects -- freedom-and-damn-them-all-to-hell to fight-them-on-the-beaches and back. And he only ever changed to the latter position after the evidence was unavoidable, because he's psychologically incapable of thinking about anyone but himself and how history would perceive him personally. He is absolutely the fundamental reason why this country can only act out of expedience and urgency.