4 ms·

I am part of this younger generation, turning 29 this year (Jesus Christ!). Hustle culture is definitely a thing - I personally quit a career in software 2 yea

I am part of this younger generation, turning 29 this year (Jesus Christ!). Hustle culture is definitely a thing - I personally quit a career in software 2 years ago to sell second-hand video games on eBay (making about double now what I was then, and with the high likelihood that it will increase another 30-50% over the coming 12 months), but based on the people I know IRL I'd suspect it's less than 10% of us that are doing any sort of "hustle" at all seriously. Earning 200k a year is absolutely not something that people scoff at, either. The "why spend your life working" meme is more about people dedicating a huge part of their week to their work only to barely get ahead. If you're getting a large wage, you can invest a huge amount of what you earn without having to go without anything materially. The anti-work attitudes and hustle culture that you talk about are definitely there, but exaggerated hugely by reddit and other online forums.

apatters 5y ago
What sucks about hustle culture is that 90% don't make it and they waste valuable time. When there is an alternative that's been around for decades (centuries?) and it works. Build skills, work hard, live frugally, invest whatever you can for 40 years, you will end up just fine. Heck you don't even need to get all of those right, the only mandatory one is the last one, the other three just make it easier. But this strategy is slow and nobody wants to hear it, it's preached by lame boomers like Warren Buffet and Robert Kiyosaki. People would rather scroll through the Instagrams of a couple hustlers who are living large and dream. I get it on some level, there's never been a better time in history to get lost in fantasy.
- danaris 5y ago
  Unfortunately, there are millions and millions of people who build skills, work hard, and live frugally, and still aren't left with enough to invest anything, because the world has shifted in ways that make it impossible. The idea that this is open to everyone—that working hard will guarantee you a decent income—is the big lie that's being increasingly recognized by young people today.
- jsnodlin 5y ago
  The underlying here is people don’t want to “work hard” for decades because that is no longer considered a good life.
  - apatters 5y ago
    Not quite. As I said, it is possible to avoid the working hard part. The part you can't avoid is investing for the long term. So they don't want to do that, or they don't realize how important it is. On one hand I identify with a lot of the criticisms of "Generation Tiktok" and the anti-work movement and so on. On the other hand, I didn't appreciate the significance of long-term investing as much in my 20s as I do now, either. And I know plenty of people in their 30s and 40s who still don't. The only real mistake we make imho is telling these people they're right when they're not.
beckman466 5y ago
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  >so is part of your business model buying games from charity shops that were donated by the propertied class, for working class people, and selling those on eBay? No I don't, because this is a very labour-intensive way of sourcing stock. Mostly we'll buy bulk lots (some working, some faulty, some untested), refurb what needs refurbing, bundle to create greater-than-sum-of-parts listings and sell individually through custom scripts what can be sold efficiently this way. >finding ever-newer ways of cheating each other and gaining an 'advantage' on others. I don't spend a single second of my day thinking about how to fuck over my customers. On the flip side, I am ears-to-the-fucking-ground aware of what they want and constantly trying to come up with more efficient ways to deliver this. >fuck capitalism I'm not going to say it has its flaws, but a business that creates zero externalities, spends $0 on lobbying, creates well-paid jobs (OK, just one right now, but we're looking to hire another couple of people this year) and makes thousands of customers happy every year doesn't seem like a good example of why the system doesn't work.
  - beckman466 5y ago
    > No I don't, because this is a very labour-intensive way of sourcing stock. fair enough. i recently saw some TV program where an 'entrepreneur' did stuff like that and it annoyed the heck out of me. ah there's a bit of miscommunication on my part; that second part of my comment was and less about you and more me ranting about what i'm seeing in the system as a whole.
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      >ah there's a bit of miscommunication on my part; that second part of my comment was and less about you and more me ranting about what i'm seeing in the system as a whole. I understand that, but I don't think this was the right time launch into such a rant. (Also, just as a general rebuttal, I think many modern Marxists fail to acknowledge how class dynamics have changed since the 1800s. There's no acknowledgement of the tension between the managerial classes and the people doing the actual labour - something which David Graeber explains brilliantly - and instead an immense focus on control of the worker via control of the means of production. Access to the means of production is ridiculously democratised now. You can look at my HN profile for a concrete example, but I, as a single 22 year-old from Australia, was able to design, manufacture and distribute a product globally, through cutting-edge logistics networks, without putting a cent of my own capital on the line. For the average worker, who is more often than not employed in a service role, a similar dynamic applied. All a skilled plumber, electrician or cleaner needs to start their own business now is a Facebook account, some tools and a van.)

apatters 5y ago

What sucks about hustle culture is that 90% don't make it and they waste valuable time. When there is an alternative that's been around for decades (centuries?) and it works. Build skills, work hard, live frugally, invest whatever you can for 40 years, you will end up just fine. Heck you don't even need to get all of those right, the only mandatory one is the last one, the other three just make it easier. But this strategy is slow and nobody wants to hear it, it's preached by lame boomers like Warren Buffet and Robert Kiyosaki. People would rather scroll through the Instagrams of a couple hustlers who are living large and dream. I get it on some level, there's never been a better time in history to get lost in fantasy.

danaris 5y ago
Unfortunately, there are millions and millions of people who build skills, work hard, and live frugally, and still aren't left with enough to invest anything, because the world has shifted in ways that make it impossible. The idea that this is open to everyone—that working hard will guarantee you a decent income—is the big lie that's being increasingly recognized by young people today.
jsnodlin 5y ago
The underlying here is people don’t want to “work hard” for decades because that is no longer considered a good life.
- apatters 5y ago
  Not quite. As I said, it is possible to avoid the working hard part. The part you can't avoid is investing for the long term. So they don't want to do that, or they don't realize how important it is. On one hand I identify with a lot of the criticisms of "Generation Tiktok" and the anti-work movement and so on. On the other hand, I didn't appreciate the significance of long-term investing as much in my 20s as I do now, either. And I know plenty of people in their 30s and 40s who still don't. The only real mistake we make imho is telling these people they're right when they're not.

beckman466 5y ago

AussieWog93 5y ago
>so is part of your business model buying games from charity shops that were donated by the propertied class, for working class people, and selling those on eBay? No I don't, because this is a very labour-intensive way of sourcing stock. Mostly we'll buy bulk lots (some working, some faulty, some untested), refurb what needs refurbing, bundle to create greater-than-sum-of-parts listings and sell individually through custom scripts what can be sold efficiently this way. >finding ever-newer ways of cheating each other and gaining an 'advantage' on others. I don't spend a single second of my day thinking about how to fuck over my customers. On the flip side, I am ears-to-the-fucking-ground aware of what they want and constantly trying to come up with more efficient ways to deliver this. >fuck capitalism I'm not going to say it has its flaws, but a business that creates zero externalities, spends $0 on lobbying, creates well-paid jobs (OK, just one right now, but we're looking to hire another couple of people this year) and makes thousands of customers happy every year doesn't seem like a good example of why the system doesn't work.
- beckman466 5y ago
  > No I don't, because this is a very labour-intensive way of sourcing stock. fair enough. i recently saw some TV program where an 'entrepreneur' did stuff like that and it annoyed the heck out of me. ah there's a bit of miscommunication on my part; that second part of my comment was and less about you and more me ranting about what i'm seeing in the system as a whole.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    >ah there's a bit of miscommunication on my part; that second part of my comment was and less about you and more me ranting about what i'm seeing in the system as a whole. I understand that, but I don't think this was the right time launch into such a rant. (Also, just as a general rebuttal, I think many modern Marxists fail to acknowledge how class dynamics have changed since the 1800s. There's no acknowledgement of the tension between the managerial classes and the people doing the actual labour - something which David Graeber explains brilliantly - and instead an immense focus on control of the worker via control of the means of production. Access to the means of production is ridiculously democratised now. You can look at my HN profile for a concrete example, but I, as a single 22 year-old from Australia, was able to design, manufacture and distribute a product globally, through cutting-edge logistics networks, without putting a cent of my own capital on the line. For the average worker, who is more often than not employed in a service role, a similar dynamic applied. All a skilled plumber, electrician or cleaner needs to start their own business now is a Facebook account, some tools and a van.)