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So… there was hope vaccines could stop the pandemic, but they only help a lot to reduce number of hospitalizations and deaths, so now you’re anti vaccines. And

So… there was hope vaccines could stop the pandemic, but they only help a lot to reduce number of hospitalizations and deaths, so now you’re anti vaccines. And people won’t trust science ever again? I’m sorry but that doesn’t make any sense. All I’m hearing is some people trying to argue their ways into being irresponsible and selfish. Should governments let hospitals get overrun without even trying to take any measures? Ok we get it, your freedom is more important than other people’s health. But freedom isn’t about doing whatever you want. If your "freedom" threatens the lives of other people, I’d say it’s egoistic behaviors disguised as freedom.

ls15 5y ago
> If your "freedom" threatens the lives of other people, I’d say it’s egoistic behaviors disguised as freedom. This has been debunked a long time ago. As I said: SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are a tool for mitigating personal risk, but not against the spread of the virus in the society. This is clearly shown by the Covid-rates in tripple-vaccinated people. Not taking the vaccine isn't any more egoistic than smoking, being obese, driving a motorbike, eating unhealthy, not supplementing vitamin D or anything else that increases your risk of illness. Not taking the vaccine also does not automatically translate into becoming hospitalized with severe Covid. A healhy young person with a functioning immune system has a very low risk of getting hospitalized because of Covid. SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine mandates are intellectually and morally dead. This is also evidenced by my own and my wife's case: Two doses of pfizer, then infected by a person who was tripple-vaccinated and we both had symptomatic Covid that wasn't mild by any means.
- qsdf38100 5y ago
  "Not taking the vaccine isn't any more egoistic than smoking, being obese, driving a motorbike, eating unhealthy, not supplementing vitamin D or anything else that increases your risk of illness" I'm sorry but once again, hospitals aren't currently overrun by illnesses due to smokers, obese, etc. They are overrun by people with severe Covid cases, with significantly more unvaccinated people than vaccinated people. "Not taking the vaccine also does not automatically translate into becoming hospitalized with severe Covid" Of course, it just tends to reduce the severity of covid cases. Which is the point, because, you remember, it reduces hospitalizations so that health services can remain functional? "This is also evidenced by my own and my wife's case: Two doses of pfizer, then infected by a person who was tripple-vaccinated and we both had symptomatic Covid that wasn't mild by any means." Why aren't you considering the possibility that your not-mild covid could have been worse if you weren't vaccinated? I don't see your case as an evidence for anything, really. [Edit: Apart from the fact that covid vaccines don't make one immune, especially with variants. The point was that they still help significantly with case severity]
  - hajile 5y ago
    78% of people dying from COVID have at least 4 pre-existing conditions and one of those is almost always obesity. The people supposedly being blocked by COVID patients are largely people who have pre-existing conditions from smoking, eating unhealthily, not exercising, being obese, taking stupid risks, etc At best you have one stupid group blocking another stupid group.
    - qsdf38100 5y ago
      Passing new laws to forbid smoking, eating too much, not doing enough exercised, etc. would be so much more restrictive, compared to taking few vaccine shots and wearing a mask in some places. Vaccines help reducing hospitalizations for all these groups at once, right?
      - ls15 5y ago
        So a vaccinated, fat, smoking and drinking motorcyclist does more for the health sector than a slim yoga practitioner and health food enthusiast who decides against vaccination? What could go wrong?
        qsdf38100 5y ago
        So... I don't understand if you think there are too much restrictions due to covid, or not enough? what are you suggesting? Restrict eating, smoking, drinking, motorcycling, force people to exercise? Or are you suggesting that since we can't restrict all these things, we should restrict nothing? I still fail to see how 2 vaccine shots a year compares to restricting what you're allowed to eat, smoke, drink, drive, and force exercise.
        ls15 5y ago
        Depends. If you want a social-credit-score-like system like in China, then more restrictions are great, because obviously once you implement restrictions, you also need to document them and make sure that everyone complies. If such a dystopia does not sound good, keep them to an absolute minimum.
- Yhippa 5y ago
  Why do seat belt laws exist?
  - ls15 5y ago
    Seat belts != vaccines. Seat belts can be taken off after use. Vaccines cannot be scraped out of the body again. Masks vs. seat belts is a better comparison.
    - Yhippa 5y ago
      Why would you make someone do something that doesn't impact others?

ls15 5y ago

> If your "freedom" threatens the lives of other people, I’d say it’s egoistic behaviors disguised as freedom. This has been debunked a long time ago. As I said: SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are a tool for mitigating personal risk, but not against the spread of the virus in the society. This is clearly shown by the Covid-rates in tripple-vaccinated people. Not taking the vaccine isn't any more egoistic than smoking, being obese, driving a motorbike, eating unhealthy, not supplementing vitamin D or anything else that increases your risk of illness. Not taking the vaccine also does not automatically translate into becoming hospitalized with severe Covid. A healhy young person with a functioning immune system has a very low risk of getting hospitalized because of Covid. SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine mandates are intellectually and morally dead. This is also evidenced by my own and my wife's case: Two doses of pfizer, then infected by a person who was tripple-vaccinated and we both had symptomatic Covid that wasn't mild by any means.

qsdf38100 5y ago
"Not taking the vaccine isn't any more egoistic than smoking, being obese, driving a motorbike, eating unhealthy, not supplementing vitamin D or anything else that increases your risk of illness" I'm sorry but once again, hospitals aren't currently overrun by illnesses due to smokers, obese, etc. They are overrun by people with severe Covid cases, with significantly more unvaccinated people than vaccinated people. "Not taking the vaccine also does not automatically translate into becoming hospitalized with severe Covid" Of course, it just tends to reduce the severity of covid cases. Which is the point, because, you remember, it reduces hospitalizations so that health services can remain functional? "This is also evidenced by my own and my wife's case: Two doses of pfizer, then infected by a person who was tripple-vaccinated and we both had symptomatic Covid that wasn't mild by any means." Why aren't you considering the possibility that your not-mild covid could have been worse if you weren't vaccinated? I don't see your case as an evidence for anything, really. [Edit: Apart from the fact that covid vaccines don't make one immune, especially with variants. The point was that they still help significantly with case severity]
- hajile 5y ago
  78% of people dying from COVID have at least 4 pre-existing conditions and one of those is almost always obesity. The people supposedly being blocked by COVID patients are largely people who have pre-existing conditions from smoking, eating unhealthily, not exercising, being obese, taking stupid risks, etc At best you have one stupid group blocking another stupid group.
  - qsdf38100 5y ago
    Passing new laws to forbid smoking, eating too much, not doing enough exercised, etc. would be so much more restrictive, compared to taking few vaccine shots and wearing a mask in some places. Vaccines help reducing hospitalizations for all these groups at once, right?
    - ls15 5y ago
      So a vaccinated, fat, smoking and drinking motorcyclist does more for the health sector than a slim yoga practitioner and health food enthusiast who decides against vaccination? What could go wrong?
      - qsdf38100 5y ago
        So... I don't understand if you think there are too much restrictions due to covid, or not enough? what are you suggesting? Restrict eating, smoking, drinking, motorcycling, force people to exercise? Or are you suggesting that since we can't restrict all these things, we should restrict nothing? I still fail to see how 2 vaccine shots a year compares to restricting what you're allowed to eat, smoke, drink, drive, and force exercise.
        ls15 5y ago
        Depends. If you want a social-credit-score-like system like in China, then more restrictions are great, because obviously once you implement restrictions, you also need to document them and make sure that everyone complies. If such a dystopia does not sound good, keep them to an absolute minimum.
Yhippa 5y ago
Why do seat belt laws exist?
- ls15 5y ago
  Seat belts != vaccines. Seat belts can be taken off after use. Vaccines cannot be scraped out of the body again. Masks vs. seat belts is a better comparison.
  - Yhippa 5y ago
    Why would you make someone do something that doesn't impact others?