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OP is asking if we're actually willing to personally sacrifice in order to pressure China into not violating human rights. Or if we're all talk and no bite. And

by dymk 5y ago

OP is asking if we're actually willing to personally sacrifice in order to pressure China into not violating human rights. Or if we're all talk and no bite. And it's a fair question. Has anyone here even written to their senator? The only way the leadership of our country (I'm assuming most of us are in the US) is going to impose real sanctions and penalties on China is if we, as a people, vehemently demand it. Personally, I am attempting to persuade those within my company that we restrict our business with China. This does not typically go over well, because 1) there's a lot of money in China, and 2) there are many Chinese nationals in our employ who very much do not like people pointing out the human rights violations of their country.

benrbray 5y ago
> Has anyone here even written to their senator? Can anyone point to a change or sacrifice a senator has made to their beliefs after receiving a letter? I'm guessing a check would be more persuasive.
- dymk 5y ago
  Actually yeah, we had a recent law here in Washington pass (I cannot remember the specifics of it, but that's not the important part). Iirc, 8 people in total contacted a particular state rep (well, their office), and that law was given the time of day because turns out, _very very_ few people ever try to get in contact with them. Now, this was a state senator, not a US senator, but still, it only takes a very small (but very vocal!) minority to at least signal concern. China is obviously a much bigger issue and there are greater powers pushing back against any kind of real action. But it does send a message.
  - icelancer 5y ago
    I've written our state senator, local rep, and governor's office here in Washington state and have received nothing but canned responses in return, even for local issues. Advisory votes are non-binding and ignored. When people write in and the rep pays attention, they were going to pay attention anyway and just use the write in things to pander to their constituents and pretend as if it mattered.
- mistrial9 5y ago
  My Senator is Dianne Feinstein, whose husband personally created the China-shipping-products pipeline with early purchases of ships, shipping capacity, intermediate companies for low-ish prices, then spent decades carefully lowering the costs, to eventually make billions, and make sure that the assets involved were owned closely to prevent takeover. Maybe I should write her a letter?
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    > Maybe I should write her a letter? Yes, you should, because if there has been abuses of political power to engage in fraud, it should be investigated, and until then she should recuse herself from anything that may cast a doubt on her actions.
    - mistrial9 5y ago
      you badly misunderstand -- it is business advantage, not fraud. It was carefully, definitely, one hundred percent legal. I did not know someone could setup a holding company legally, purchase one container ship at a good price, since they are slow and expensive to buy, they are out there. But Richard Blum did find that out and buy one. That's not illegal. He worked hard to find that and execute the whole setup, then someone has to run it. Once it is making even a small profit, which takes many steps and largely is determined by the cost of the capital involved, there are others in the shipping world that would definitely just take it, with whatever means of lawyers etc that you, I, and Richard Blum don't know about. So the operation must be defended. Its not illegal, it is years of careful work. (edit: I sloppily changed ship type in the heat of this dramatic response, thinking back I believe it was an oil cargo ship, not a container ship, so that gets him off the hook for this thread. my bad) Who knew that in fact, it would work, work big, get bigger and bigger and now thousands of super smart, unknown desk jockeys are nosing into your details, while there is sliding s** social problems right now? Who knew? not you or I.. I dont hate them for being super filthy rich in their 80s, and I dont disagree with many things they have done. She and her husband are personally very smart, have done kind things, have colleagues that did not succeed that they care about.. Its messy. I didnt build that business, I did not have the credit, focus or insight. I was getting high at a PJ Harvey concert when no one knew about her, or something. I get to decide what is right now and change it? entertaining writing by me, but one letter from me to her office is not the snowball that starts the avalanche, this is a serious heavy systems problem.
shanhaiguan 5y ago
I understand your appeal to democracy here, but the US had no problems imposing sanctions on Russia and Iran and I don't recall there being an overwhelmingly popular campaign from the people for those. After the fact, sure, maybe

by dymk 5y ago

benrbray 5y ago

> Has anyone here even written to their senator? Can anyone point to a change or sacrifice a senator has made to their beliefs after receiving a letter? I'm guessing a check would be more persuasive.

dymk 5y ago
Actually yeah, we had a recent law here in Washington pass (I cannot remember the specifics of it, but that's not the important part). Iirc, 8 people in total contacted a particular state rep (well, their office), and that law was given the time of day because turns out, _very very_ few people ever try to get in contact with them. Now, this was a state senator, not a US senator, but still, it only takes a very small (but very vocal!) minority to at least signal concern. China is obviously a much bigger issue and there are greater powers pushing back against any kind of real action. But it does send a message.
- icelancer 5y ago
  I've written our state senator, local rep, and governor's office here in Washington state and have received nothing but canned responses in return, even for local issues. Advisory votes are non-binding and ignored. When people write in and the rep pays attention, they were going to pay attention anyway and just use the write in things to pander to their constituents and pretend as if it mattered.
mistrial9 5y ago
My Senator is Dianne Feinstein, whose husband personally created the China-shipping-products pipeline with early purchases of ships, shipping capacity, intermediate companies for low-ish prices, then spent decades carefully lowering the costs, to eventually make billions, and make sure that the assets involved were owned closely to prevent takeover. Maybe I should write her a letter?
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > Maybe I should write her a letter? Yes, you should, because if there has been abuses of political power to engage in fraud, it should be investigated, and until then she should recuse herself from anything that may cast a doubt on her actions.
  - mistrial9 5y ago
    you badly misunderstand -- it is business advantage, not fraud. It was carefully, definitely, one hundred percent legal. I did not know someone could setup a holding company legally, purchase one container ship at a good price, since they are slow and expensive to buy, they are out there. But Richard Blum did find that out and buy one. That's not illegal. He worked hard to find that and execute the whole setup, then someone has to run it. Once it is making even a small profit, which takes many steps and largely is determined by the cost of the capital involved, there are others in the shipping world that would definitely just take it, with whatever means of lawyers etc that you, I, and Richard Blum don't know about. So the operation must be defended. Its not illegal, it is years of careful work. (edit: I sloppily changed ship type in the heat of this dramatic response, thinking back I believe it was an oil cargo ship, not a container ship, so that gets him off the hook for this thread. my bad) Who knew that in fact, it would work, work big, get bigger and bigger and now thousands of super smart, unknown desk jockeys are nosing into your details, while there is sliding s** social problems right now? Who knew? not you or I.. I dont hate them for being super filthy rich in their 80s, and I dont disagree with many things they have done. She and her husband are personally very smart, have done kind things, have colleagues that did not succeed that they care about.. Its messy. I didnt build that business, I did not have the credit, focus or insight. I was getting high at a PJ Harvey concert when no one knew about her, or something. I get to decide what is right now and change it? entertaining writing by me, but one letter from me to her office is not the snowball that starts the avalanche, this is a serious heavy systems problem.

shanhaiguan 5y ago

I understand your appeal to democracy here, but the US had no problems imposing sanctions on Russia and Iran and I don't recall there being an overwhelmingly popular campaign from the people for those. After the fact, sure, maybe