5 ms·

You read about horrible things that happened in the 1800s and your takeaway is... we should allow such things to happen again today? Can you elaborate a little

by Permit 5y ago

You read about horrible things that happened in the 1800s and your takeaway is... we should allow such things to happen again today? Can you elaborate a little bit?

chasil 5y ago
Can we possibly see ourselves as objective judges when our collective history is essentially, from this historic perspective, butchery? What blessed this generation with a wisdom not seen before? What, precisely?
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  Change. Goddamn, are you serious standing there saying "it's cool, rape and torture them. Our country used to do it a few generations ago." Privileged asshole.
  - chasil 5y ago
    Should we be compelled to intervene in sovereign nations? Does sovereignty still exist?
    - TeeMassive 5y ago
      China wouldn't exist as a free country without American interventionism in the Pacific ;)
  - chasil 5y ago
    You will never find what you are seeking. People do as they do. All the weeping in the world will not make it so.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  Seriously? You see reports of state-sponsored child abuse and your first instinct is, "well, who are we to judge?" I imagine the answer should be, "pretty much anyone who isn't a child abuser."
  - chasil 5y ago
    Sovereignty means many things, but one thing specifically: No other realm may decide the fate of these people. China is sovereign, and we must acknowledge that.
    - girvo 5y ago
      > China is sovereign, and we must acknowledge that. What does that mean to you, exactly?
      - chasil 5y ago
        What it really means is this. Stalin and Mao agreed in a fateful moment to take a side with the U.S. The adversaries perished. We are left to decide amongst and between ourselves what to do. In the U.S., I believe that all people are created equal. That is not the universal belief.
    - ulrikrasmussen 5y ago
      This is an entirely different point from the first one you proposed
    - chasd00 5y ago
      Human rights apply to all humans regardless of where they live.
      - JuanitaYoung 5y ago
      - SimonWillson 5y ago
      - DavidFilman 5y ago
      - 5y ago
- cscurmudgeon 5y ago
  What blessed YOU with a wisdom not seen before?
  - chasil 5y ago
    XCIX Ah, Fate! could you and I with Him conspire To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things entire, Would not we shatter it to bits--and then Re-mould it nearer to the Heart's Desire! We would wish for a better world. Not all the wishing in the world would make it so.
- ulrikrasmussen 5y ago
  Why can't one acknowledge that their country did horrible things in the past and at the same time demand that other countries don't repeat history? You are not born with inherited sympathy for every action that your ancestors did in the past.
  - chasil 5y ago
    Nixon opened the door to China in 1972. Just imagine if free and fair trade hadn't happen in the U.S. in 1776. What would we be, in 1972? I shudder to think.
    - ulrikrasmussen 5y ago
      I'm sorry, but I fail to see the connection of this to the question I was asking
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  If you go back far enough every nation, ethnicity and ancestry did something very awful and wrong. By that logic slavery and genocide should not be judged ever and we would never evolve.
xmprt 5y ago
Slightly off topic but I extremely worried about schools shying away from teaching the horrific things that their countries have done in the past. You can't sugar coat things like slavery and colonization. Especially with the fight against "CRT" in many US schools we're seeing this happen increasingly in recent years.
- whythre 5y ago
  CRT is not the correct way to interface with the United State’s checkered past. Human history is a horror show. It is up to us to live ethically. Segregating schools into a race-based dichotomy of oppressor/oppressed will not accomplish that.
VictorPath 5y ago
Pepper spraying Standing Rock Indians who don't want an oil pipeline going through their reservation and burn up the planet to make some American heir richer was in the 1800s? It was about 5 years ago.
- chasil 5y ago
  I encourage you to understand the full and true history behind this event: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bad_Axe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bad_Axe
csdvrx 5y ago
> You read about horrible things that happened in the 1800s and your takeaway is... we should allow such things to happen again today? Can you elaborate a little bit? Despite all that, or maybe thanks to having recognized the errors in our ways, we have grown into a democracy that now truly respect cultural differences. Look at free speech here in the US, vs say in Austria or Germany: after WW2, they banned everything nazi related. We have some crazies marching down in full uniforms. Yet they are the one with a neonazi problem- not us. How come? What is happening is sad and horrible, but at the society level, these are growing pains. You can't force enlightenment onto societies by force.
- chasil 5y ago

by Permit 5y ago

You read about horrible things that happened in the 1800s and your takeaway is... we should allow such things to happen again today? Can you elaborate a little bit?

chasil 5y ago

Can we possibly see ourselves as objective judges when our collective history is essentially, from this historic perspective, butchery? What blessed this generation with a wisdom not seen before? What, precisely?

artificialLimbs 5y ago
Change. Goddamn, are you serious standing there saying "it's cool, rape and torture them. Our country used to do it a few generations ago." Privileged asshole.
- chasil 5y ago
  Should we be compelled to intervene in sovereign nations? Does sovereignty still exist?
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    China wouldn't exist as a free country without American interventionism in the Pacific ;)
- chasil 5y ago
  You will never find what you are seeking. People do as they do. All the weeping in the world will not make it so.
TulliusCicero 5y ago
Seriously? You see reports of state-sponsored child abuse and your first instinct is, "well, who are we to judge?" I imagine the answer should be, "pretty much anyone who isn't a child abuser."
- chasil 5y ago
  Sovereignty means many things, but one thing specifically: No other realm may decide the fate of these people. China is sovereign, and we must acknowledge that.
  - girvo 5y ago
    > China is sovereign, and we must acknowledge that. What does that mean to you, exactly?
    - chasil 5y ago
      What it really means is this. Stalin and Mao agreed in a fateful moment to take a side with the U.S. The adversaries perished. We are left to decide amongst and between ourselves what to do. In the U.S., I believe that all people are created equal. That is not the universal belief.
  - ulrikrasmussen 5y ago
    This is an entirely different point from the first one you proposed
  - chasd00 5y ago
    Human rights apply to all humans regardless of where they live.
    - JuanitaYoung 5y ago
    - SimonWillson 5y ago
    - DavidFilman 5y ago
    - 5y ago
cscurmudgeon 5y ago
What blessed YOU with a wisdom not seen before?
- chasil 5y ago
  XCIX Ah, Fate! could you and I with Him conspire To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things entire, Would not we shatter it to bits--and then Re-mould it nearer to the Heart's Desire! We would wish for a better world. Not all the wishing in the world would make it so.
ulrikrasmussen 5y ago
Why can't one acknowledge that their country did horrible things in the past and at the same time demand that other countries don't repeat history? You are not born with inherited sympathy for every action that your ancestors did in the past.
- chasil 5y ago
  Nixon opened the door to China in 1972. Just imagine if free and fair trade hadn't happen in the U.S. in 1776. What would we be, in 1972? I shudder to think.
  - ulrikrasmussen 5y ago
    I'm sorry, but I fail to see the connection of this to the question I was asking
TeeMassive 5y ago
If you go back far enough every nation, ethnicity and ancestry did something very awful and wrong. By that logic slavery and genocide should not be judged ever and we would never evolve.

xmprt 5y ago

Slightly off topic but I extremely worried about schools shying away from teaching the horrific things that their countries have done in the past. You can't sugar coat things like slavery and colonization. Especially with the fight against "CRT" in many US schools we're seeing this happen increasingly in recent years.

whythre 5y ago
CRT is not the correct way to interface with the United State’s checkered past. Human history is a horror show. It is up to us to live ethically. Segregating schools into a race-based dichotomy of oppressor/oppressed will not accomplish that.

VictorPath 5y ago

Pepper spraying Standing Rock Indians who don't want an oil pipeline going through their reservation and burn up the planet to make some American heir richer was in the 1800s? It was about 5 years ago.

chasil 5y ago
I encourage you to understand the full and true history behind this event: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bad_Axe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bad_Axe

csdvrx 5y ago

> You read about horrible things that happened in the 1800s and your takeaway is... we should allow such things to happen again today? Can you elaborate a little bit? Despite all that, or maybe thanks to having recognized the errors in our ways, we have grown into a democracy that now truly respect cultural differences. Look at free speech here in the US, vs say in Austria or Germany: after WW2, they banned everything nazi related. We have some crazies marching down in full uniforms. Yet they are the one with a neonazi problem- not us. How come? What is happening is sad and horrible, but at the society level, these are growing pains. You can't force enlightenment onto societies by force.

chasil 5y ago