5 ms·

Counter anecdote. I've never seen a Gadsden flag flown by a confederate flag. It's mainly flown by libertarians and others who respect privacy and freedom. Eit

Counter anecdote. I've never seen a Gadsden flag flown by a confederate flag. It's mainly flown by libertarians and others who respect privacy and freedom. Either way, confederate flags aren't normally flown in racist intent. Most people fly them to represent their heritage. The Dixie line, Outlaw country, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see a libertarian from deep Georgia fly both and not be racist in the slight. I think you need to leave your bubble and learn about the people you are trying to demonize.

mikeyouse 5y ago
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Again, that's your perception of the world which is deluded by your ignorance of others. Also, you ignored the rest of my post to further live in your delusion of a racist enemy to play hero against.
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    I (loosely) know plenty of people who fly the confederate flag -- they're all awful shitty racists. Including some of my family members. They all claim it's for heritage reasons as well (which is weird because we're in "the north"). The rest of your post was some anecdotal observation that you've never seen a Gadsden flag next to a confederate one. Here's the Gadsden flown by secessionists in Civil War Georgia fighting to maintain and expand slavery: https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/images/Dontreadonme.jpg?maxwidth=650&autorotate=false&quality=78&format=webp https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/images/Dontreadonme.jpg?max... Here's the Alabama secession flag (which they flew because they wanted to keep slavery): https://archives.alabama.gov/images/noliflag.gif https://archives.alabama.gov/images/noliflag.gif In fact, the Gadsden symbol was so ubiquitous as a symbol of maintaning slavery, they had political 'cartoons' of Eagles dismembering snakes in Union papers: https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/10822/550761/cwe_008_03.jpg?sequence=1&isAllowed=y https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/1... It actually made it into the Battle Hymn of the Republic as well, > "I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel…Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel." Here's both with a Swastika being flown in Charlottesville before the Unite the Right rally: https://www.virginiamercury.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Charlottesville_Unite_the_Right_Rally_35780274914_crop.jpg https://www.virginiamercury.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/C... Here's one from Milwaukee from someone protesting the initial lockdowns in 2020: https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/04/19/PMJS/67a2a7dc-d025-41ec-826f-d46b103701d2-IMG_1531_1.JPG?width=1320&height=990&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/04/19/PMJS/67a2a7dc-... Hope that's helpful background into why many people associate the two flags.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      > They all claim it's for heritage reasons But you know mindread better than what everyone else is thinking. I know plenty of people, plenty of music, plenty of shows (general lee), plenty of culture that involves the confederate flag without racism.
      - mikeyouse 5y ago
        You don't see the irony in how you started off saying there's no relationship between the Gadsden flag and the Confederate flag (implying the former shouldn't be tainted by the latter) -- and then moved to a full-throated defense of the confederate flag? Anyway, if you can't see it, not sure what to tell you. Cheers.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        I didn't move on, in the same post I both refuted your link of the two and informed you the reasons people fly both, neither for racism. It's a flag. You aren't making the world a better place by crying imaginary racism. Go crusade something else to feel better. You're one of those people who need religion but think you're too smart for it.
    - enchiridion 5y ago
      Wow that is a well researched position, thanks for sharing. First of all I do think think all confederate flags should be retired. The confederate flags represent an enemy the US defeated. No American should feel pride about those flags. However, you’ve provided image links with no context but your own. I am not sure what any of those images represented back in the time. I’m also having a hard time finding information to support your position. Additionally, the Alabama link looks like a bush maybe? Definitely do not see the Gadsden iconography, but maybe it’s just a bad scan. I will say the Battle Hymn link is tenuous at best. The timber rattle snake on the flag is representative of the original rebellious 13 colonies (on the wiki if you want to read more). The rattlers are really only dangerous if stepped on, hence the phrase on the flag. In the hymn, “Crushing the snake under heal” has religious background, and represents extinguishing evil. To me the flag represents that the people of this country have the right to oppose the government. That is a fundamental ideal in the US. In that context, it makes sense why some extreme fringe groups would co-opt the flag when opposing the government. However, that does not mean the flag represents extremist views to the vast majority of people who like to fly it. Finally, my original comment said it was disingenuous to associate the two so closely like you did. At least say “and” instead of “/“. Someone not so familiar might assume they are literally the same thing.

mikeyouse 5y ago

hunterb123 5y ago
Again, that's your perception of the world which is deluded by your ignorance of others. Also, you ignored the rest of my post to further live in your delusion of a racist enemy to play hero against.
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  I (loosely) know plenty of people who fly the confederate flag -- they're all awful shitty racists. Including some of my family members. They all claim it's for heritage reasons as well (which is weird because we're in "the north"). The rest of your post was some anecdotal observation that you've never seen a Gadsden flag next to a confederate one. Here's the Gadsden flown by secessionists in Civil War Georgia fighting to maintain and expand slavery: https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/images/Dontreadonme.jpg?maxwidth=650&autorotate=false&quality=78&format=webp https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/images/Dontreadonme.jpg?max... Here's the Alabama secession flag (which they flew because they wanted to keep slavery): https://archives.alabama.gov/images/noliflag.gif https://archives.alabama.gov/images/noliflag.gif In fact, the Gadsden symbol was so ubiquitous as a symbol of maintaning slavery, they had political 'cartoons' of Eagles dismembering snakes in Union papers: https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/10822/550761/cwe_008_03.jpg?sequence=1&isAllowed=y https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/1... It actually made it into the Battle Hymn of the Republic as well, > "I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel…Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel." Here's both with a Swastika being flown in Charlottesville before the Unite the Right rally: https://www.virginiamercury.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Charlottesville_Unite_the_Right_Rally_35780274914_crop.jpg https://www.virginiamercury.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/C... Here's one from Milwaukee from someone protesting the initial lockdowns in 2020: https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/04/19/PMJS/67a2a7dc-d025-41ec-826f-d46b103701d2-IMG_1531_1.JPG?width=1320&height=990&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/04/19/PMJS/67a2a7dc-... Hope that's helpful background into why many people associate the two flags.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    > They all claim it's for heritage reasons But you know mindread better than what everyone else is thinking. I know plenty of people, plenty of music, plenty of shows (general lee), plenty of culture that involves the confederate flag without racism.
    - mikeyouse 5y ago
      You don't see the irony in how you started off saying there's no relationship between the Gadsden flag and the Confederate flag (implying the former shouldn't be tainted by the latter) -- and then moved to a full-throated defense of the confederate flag? Anyway, if you can't see it, not sure what to tell you. Cheers.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        I didn't move on, in the same post I both refuted your link of the two and informed you the reasons people fly both, neither for racism. It's a flag. You aren't making the world a better place by crying imaginary racism. Go crusade something else to feel better. You're one of those people who need religion but think you're too smart for it.
  - enchiridion 5y ago
    Wow that is a well researched position, thanks for sharing. First of all I do think think all confederate flags should be retired. The confederate flags represent an enemy the US defeated. No American should feel pride about those flags. However, you’ve provided image links with no context but your own. I am not sure what any of those images represented back in the time. I’m also having a hard time finding information to support your position. Additionally, the Alabama link looks like a bush maybe? Definitely do not see the Gadsden iconography, but maybe it’s just a bad scan. I will say the Battle Hymn link is tenuous at best. The timber rattle snake on the flag is representative of the original rebellious 13 colonies (on the wiki if you want to read more). The rattlers are really only dangerous if stepped on, hence the phrase on the flag. In the hymn, “Crushing the snake under heal” has religious background, and represents extinguishing evil. To me the flag represents that the people of this country have the right to oppose the government. That is a fundamental ideal in the US. In that context, it makes sense why some extreme fringe groups would co-opt the flag when opposing the government. However, that does not mean the flag represents extremist views to the vast majority of people who like to fly it. Finally, my original comment said it was disingenuous to associate the two so closely like you did. At least say “and” instead of “/“. Someone not so familiar might assume they are literally the same thing.