4 ms·

Worth noting here that the law is ignored by the NYPD in the outer boroughs but it’s actually pretty much impossible to get a 53’ truck onto Manhattan because t

Worth noting here that the law is ignored by the NYPD in the outer boroughs but it’s actually pretty much impossible to get a 53’ truck onto Manhattan because there are so few ways onto the island, and the only one of the interstates on which 53’ trailers are legal passes through Manhattan. And yet here’s a fun fact: it’s actually possible to buy food and necessary items in Manhattan. The NYPD ignores the law but the national chain stores that cover the island do not. It’s actually so easy to make deliveries and pickups that those stores are well stocked and serve residential neighborhoods that are literally some of the densest on earth. Turns out humans have ways of moving stuff around without 53’ trailers.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> residential neighborhoods that are literally some of the densest on earth. “Some of” is flexible enough to be completely meaningless, but the top, well, many of the densest neighborhoods on earth are anot in North America and have densities in people per square kilometer similar to or greater than NYC’s densest neighborhoods do in people per square mile.
- williamsmj 5y ago
  If I thought they were the densest residential neighborhoods on earth I would have said so.
notch656a 5y ago
And I'm sure none of those trucks going into Manhattan come from distribution centers in the outer boroughs, which are in turn stocked by standard trailers. Sure you can get stuff around in things other than 53' trailers, but I think those in Manhattan have decided that's a bad idea when they actually buy stuff trucked into NYC on those trailers.
- williamsmj 5y ago
  Look, 53’ trailers illegally entering Manhattan is a problem. I’ll be the first to admit that. But if you think life on Manhattan is only possible because of a huge illegal trucking operation then I don’t know what to tell you. The US doesn’t have dense cities except NYC, so you may not realise this but rules against big trucks in dense cities are extremely common globally. I get that this offends you aesthetically and you therefore want to think the people of Paris and London and Munich and Hong Kong are miserable and starving because they don’t let trucks in. But that’s not true.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    I acknowledge you're right, life is definitely possible without it. New Yorkers have decided to keep buying stuff brought on these trailers. You probably have too. People voted with their wallet and decided they would buy the goods that came in on the trailer. The reason is because it's just way more practical, and cost efficient, to go along with the standard the rest of the country is using. Until 1997 Hong Kong was a possession that functioned much like its own country. NYC is simply incomparable to this situation; NYC is less than 5% of the country. I'd also note the tariffs and regulations on goods coming into Hong Kong were way more liberal than NYC before the handoff, so Hong Kong as able to withstand some higher ground transportation cost than NY can withstand at same price.
    - williamsmj 5y ago
      I'm going to say one more time: there are > 0 illegal 53' trailers in Manhattan, but not by much. It's incredibly hard to get a trailer onto the island. The tunnels aren't tall enough and only 2 of the 21 bridges allow 53' trailers (they are the entrance and exit to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Manhattan_Expressway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Manhattan_Expressway) at the far northern end (~170th St). The bridges are all controlled by Port Authority not NYPD. The trucks that end up on lower Manhattan are lost drivers, not making illegal deliveries to Target and Whole Foods. If the NYPD enforced the law _perfectly_ it would not be "unsafe" like you suggest. It would instead make almost no difference to the availability of goods on Manhattan. I figured you'd focus on HK specifically. I don't agree it's incomparable, but forget I mentioned it. Big trucks are banned from big cities all over the world. The police forces that enforce those bans are not all sat in their cars playing games on their phones like they do in NYC. And yet life goes on.
      - notch656a 5y ago
        I was mostly referring to 53' trailers that go into outer boroughs illegally, and then get shipped in by smaller trucks into Manhattan. Manhattan is still benefitting from these illegal trailers even when they don't go into Manhattan. I'd venture a great deal of goods in Manhattan come in this way. Basically all your examples of cities involve places where the nation's trucking industry expects their major cities and a large portion of the populace (or in HK case, basically the entire territory) to require these shorter trailers. This isn't comparable to the situation in the US, and the result is that for pragmatic reasons NYPD have turned a blind eye to a poorly workable regulation. And it becomes doubly unpragmatic when we already in a situation where trucker drivers are scarce even before having to split their approach in two (travel NYC compliant, or travel rest of nation compliant).

dragonwriter 5y ago

> residential neighborhoods that are literally some of the densest on earth. “Some of” is flexible enough to be completely meaningless, but the top, well, many of the densest neighborhoods on earth are anot in North America and have densities in people per square kilometer similar to or greater than NYC’s densest neighborhoods do in people per square mile.

williamsmj 5y ago
If I thought they were the densest residential neighborhoods on earth I would have said so.

notch656a 5y ago

And I'm sure none of those trucks going into Manhattan come from distribution centers in the outer boroughs, which are in turn stocked by standard trailers. Sure you can get stuff around in things other than 53' trailers, but I think those in Manhattan have decided that's a bad idea when they actually buy stuff trucked into NYC on those trailers.

williamsmj 5y ago
Look, 53’ trailers illegally entering Manhattan is a problem. I’ll be the first to admit that. But if you think life on Manhattan is only possible because of a huge illegal trucking operation then I don’t know what to tell you. The US doesn’t have dense cities except NYC, so you may not realise this but rules against big trucks in dense cities are extremely common globally. I get that this offends you aesthetically and you therefore want to think the people of Paris and London and Munich and Hong Kong are miserable and starving because they don’t let trucks in. But that’s not true.
- notch656a 5y ago
  I acknowledge you're right, life is definitely possible without it. New Yorkers have decided to keep buying stuff brought on these trailers. You probably have too. People voted with their wallet and decided they would buy the goods that came in on the trailer. The reason is because it's just way more practical, and cost efficient, to go along with the standard the rest of the country is using. Until 1997 Hong Kong was a possession that functioned much like its own country. NYC is simply incomparable to this situation; NYC is less than 5% of the country. I'd also note the tariffs and regulations on goods coming into Hong Kong were way more liberal than NYC before the handoff, so Hong Kong as able to withstand some higher ground transportation cost than NY can withstand at same price.
  - williamsmj 5y ago
    I'm going to say one more time: there are > 0 illegal 53' trailers in Manhattan, but not by much. It's incredibly hard to get a trailer onto the island. The tunnels aren't tall enough and only 2 of the 21 bridges allow 53' trailers (they are the entrance and exit to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Manhattan_Expressway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Manhattan_Expressway) at the far northern end (~170th St). The bridges are all controlled by Port Authority not NYPD. The trucks that end up on lower Manhattan are lost drivers, not making illegal deliveries to Target and Whole Foods. If the NYPD enforced the law _perfectly_ it would not be "unsafe" like you suggest. It would instead make almost no difference to the availability of goods on Manhattan. I figured you'd focus on HK specifically. I don't agree it's incomparable, but forget I mentioned it. Big trucks are banned from big cities all over the world. The police forces that enforce those bans are not all sat in their cars playing games on their phones like they do in NYC. And yet life goes on.
    - notch656a 5y ago
      I was mostly referring to 53' trailers that go into outer boroughs illegally, and then get shipped in by smaller trucks into Manhattan. Manhattan is still benefitting from these illegal trailers even when they don't go into Manhattan. I'd venture a great deal of goods in Manhattan come in this way. Basically all your examples of cities involve places where the nation's trucking industry expects their major cities and a large portion of the populace (or in HK case, basically the entire territory) to require these shorter trailers. This isn't comparable to the situation in the US, and the result is that for pragmatic reasons NYPD have turned a blind eye to a poorly workable regulation. And it becomes doubly unpragmatic when we already in a situation where trucker drivers are scarce even before having to split their approach in two (travel NYC compliant, or travel rest of nation compliant).