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The main question is: What about push notifications? WHAT ABOUT PUSH NOTIFICATIONS?!! Even if we sideload an app, with modern mobile OS architecture many class

The main question is: What about push notifications? WHAT ABOUT PUSH NOTIFICATIONS?!! Even if we sideload an app, with modern mobile OS architecture many classes of apps will be almost useless if sideloaded apps will not be able to use push notifications provided by an operating system.

chillfox 5y ago
No, too many apps wants to interrupt whatever I am doing to nag/inform me about non time critical stuff. I have disallowed notifications for almost all apps on my iPhone. I will check an app when I want to check it, not when the app developer wants me to.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  This is an extremely limited way of thinking. Do you want WhatsApp to deliver a message to you from your mom or special one that they urgently need help? Or should they wait till you will want to check the app?
  - chillfox 5y ago
    They should use a phone call for urgent things.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    I can maybe see a prioty system for contacts. Not sure how much it would help. My family is at least an hour away and I might not see the notification anyway. That is a far cry from permitting it for all apps though.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
      You may disallow app access to notifications if you want to check it only on your schedule. But not having access to notifications hinderes main function of messaging apps - delivering messages to you. It is frankly shocking to me how many people fail to understand that. "I don't like push notifications, it means nobody needs them"
      - tomjen3 5y ago
        Yes, I do not want to have to disable them per app or even being asked if want to enable them.
        Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
        For this, there is a system-wide 'do not disturb' mode. It is actually shocking to me that some people have this extremely narrow view of this problem. There are huge classes of applications that absolutely require immediate notification of the user, but here people just handwaive this as a non-issue because "I don't like to be disturbed". How about a doctor called for an operation? Your car being robbed? Incoming bank payment? New ride request for a taxi driver? Disaster notification? VoIP call? A soccer game beginning? Billions of uses you just discard because you don't want it. Gross.
        tomjen3 5y ago
        A voip call should be done normally, which means that unless you are one of my starred contacts I don't get a notification in DND mode. I have starred maybe 5. You can make up all sorts of notifications for emergencies but I could counter with what happens if I am in the shower when I get the notification? I don't want a tornado warning the last possible second, I want to know it ahead of time so that I can get to a safe place. If my car is broken into there is nothing I can do, if my grandmother has a fall it is at least 30 minutes before I can get to her, I don't need notifications for bank payments (it gets added to a list that I renew when necessary). I wouldn't want a notification for an active shooter at all -- if I was hiding from the shooter, it could give my location away.
- InGoodFaith 5y ago
  It's great that you have the choice to disallow notifications. Conversely, it will also be great for any possible sideloaded app to also have the system give the user that same choice. Now if one side starts to impose their choices on the other is when we start having a problem.
  - chillfox 5y ago
    Sure, I can agree with that.
jdrc 5y ago
well what about them? an oversaturated channel that inevitably will become useless. Maybe users should be trained to seek the information they want instead of a device telling them what to think. It's heathier.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  Ever heard of messaging apps? The kind you want to beep when somebody sends you a message? Currently you have 2 ways of providing this to your users: run the app in the background, maintaining a persistent connection to the server, or via push notifications, where an app is woken from disabled state and displays a message. And background processes are killed off on iOS in less than 15 seconds (the documentation states 30 seconds, but we've never seen it in practice). That leaves push notifications the only choice.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    Messaging apps are a good example of when not to do notifications. Why should my day be interrupted because some random contact sends me some information? I don’t have email set to interrupt me, why should chat?
    - emptyparadise 5y ago
      Because there are people you care about and to hear from.
    - toast0 5y ago
      Push notifications don't mean only user visible notifications (or certainly don't mean a sound or haptic notification is required). It's nice for the app to get notified so it can download the message, so it's ready when you next want to look at messages. Of course, worst of both is interruption notifications where you see part of the message, tap to read the whole thing and then get to wait for the thing to load.
- cma 5y ago
  Notifications can be used for more than an interrupting news feed.
candiddevmike 5y ago
It's coming soon! https://firt.dev/ios-15.4b https://firt.dev/ios-15.4b
tomjen3 5y ago
Strong disagreement. Push notifications are so annoying and really should not exist except for calendar, todos and other time sensitive things. The idea that apps just get to notify me whenever they want is insane. This is especially true in games. Heck theses days a website gets to buck me about it just by me visiting it.
- Kbelicius 5y ago
  As a person that has never used an android or ios device I must ask, are you unable to disable push notification per app?

chillfox 5y ago

No, too many apps wants to interrupt whatever I am doing to nag/inform me about non time critical stuff. I have disallowed notifications for almost all apps on my iPhone. I will check an app when I want to check it, not when the app developer wants me to.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
This is an extremely limited way of thinking. Do you want WhatsApp to deliver a message to you from your mom or special one that they urgently need help? Or should they wait till you will want to check the app?
- chillfox 5y ago
  They should use a phone call for urgent things.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  I can maybe see a prioty system for contacts. Not sure how much it would help. My family is at least an hour away and I might not see the notification anyway. That is a far cry from permitting it for all apps though.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    You may disallow app access to notifications if you want to check it only on your schedule. But not having access to notifications hinderes main function of messaging apps - delivering messages to you. It is frankly shocking to me how many people fail to understand that. "I don't like push notifications, it means nobody needs them"
    - tomjen3 5y ago
      Yes, I do not want to have to disable them per app or even being asked if want to enable them.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
        For this, there is a system-wide 'do not disturb' mode. It is actually shocking to me that some people have this extremely narrow view of this problem. There are huge classes of applications that absolutely require immediate notification of the user, but here people just handwaive this as a non-issue because "I don't like to be disturbed". How about a doctor called for an operation? Your car being robbed? Incoming bank payment? New ride request for a taxi driver? Disaster notification? VoIP call? A soccer game beginning? Billions of uses you just discard because you don't want it. Gross.
        tomjen3 5y ago
        A voip call should be done normally, which means that unless you are one of my starred contacts I don't get a notification in DND mode. I have starred maybe 5. You can make up all sorts of notifications for emergencies but I could counter with what happens if I am in the shower when I get the notification? I don't want a tornado warning the last possible second, I want to know it ahead of time so that I can get to a safe place. If my car is broken into there is nothing I can do, if my grandmother has a fall it is at least 30 minutes before I can get to her, I don't need notifications for bank payments (it gets added to a list that I renew when necessary). I wouldn't want a notification for an active shooter at all -- if I was hiding from the shooter, it could give my location away.
InGoodFaith 5y ago
It's great that you have the choice to disallow notifications. Conversely, it will also be great for any possible sideloaded app to also have the system give the user that same choice. Now if one side starts to impose their choices on the other is when we start having a problem.
- chillfox 5y ago
  Sure, I can agree with that.

jdrc 5y ago

well what about them? an oversaturated channel that inevitably will become useless. Maybe users should be trained to seek the information they want instead of a device telling them what to think. It's heathier.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
Ever heard of messaging apps? The kind you want to beep when somebody sends you a message? Currently you have 2 ways of providing this to your users: run the app in the background, maintaining a persistent connection to the server, or via push notifications, where an app is woken from disabled state and displays a message. And background processes are killed off on iOS in less than 15 seconds (the documentation states 30 seconds, but we've never seen it in practice). That leaves push notifications the only choice.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  Messaging apps are a good example of when not to do notifications. Why should my day be interrupted because some random contact sends me some information? I don’t have email set to interrupt me, why should chat?
  - emptyparadise 5y ago
    Because there are people you care about and to hear from.
  - toast0 5y ago
    Push notifications don't mean only user visible notifications (or certainly don't mean a sound or haptic notification is required). It's nice for the app to get notified so it can download the message, so it's ready when you next want to look at messages. Of course, worst of both is interruption notifications where you see part of the message, tap to read the whole thing and then get to wait for the thing to load.
cma 5y ago
Notifications can be used for more than an interrupting news feed.

candiddevmike 5y ago

It's coming soon! https://firt.dev/ios-15.4b https://firt.dev/ios-15.4b

tomjen3 5y ago

Strong disagreement. Push notifications are so annoying and really should not exist except for calendar, todos and other time sensitive things. The idea that apps just get to notify me whenever they want is insane. This is especially true in games. Heck theses days a website gets to buck me about it just by me visiting it.

Kbelicius 5y ago
As a person that has never used an android or ios device I must ask, are you unable to disable push notification per app?